Mantle clock striking problem

Ticktocktime100

Registered User
Nov 11, 2012
1,326
101
63
France
www.collectorsweekly.com
Country
Hi,
I purchased a German Emes mantle clock with Westminster chimes in good, clean condition. After oiling and re-installing the movement, I checked if the chimes were in sync and noticed that the clock struck perfectly except on the hour. The movement does go into "warning", but then nothing. Does anyone have an idea as to the source of this problem? Thanks in advance for your imput!
Regards.
 

shutterbug

Moderator
Staff member
NAWCC Member
Oct 19, 2005
46,149
1,764
113
North Carolina
Country
Region
If you keep turning the hand does it ever chime? If so, when it does just take the minute hand off and put it back on pointing up.
 

Ticktocktime100

Registered User
Nov 11, 2012
1,326
101
63
France
www.collectorsweekly.com
Country
Thank you both for your replies. I will let the clock run for a while and see what happens. Shutterbug, are you asking if it ever chimes on the hour, or in general? It chimes perfectly at a quarter past, half past, and a quarter to, but I get nothing on the hour, apart from the "warning signal". Again, thanks!
Regards.
 

shutterbug

Moderator
Staff member
NAWCC Member
Oct 19, 2005
46,149
1,764
113
North Carolina
Country
Region
No, Ticktock. I'm asking if it ever chimes and strikes the hour at any time. If it does, then the hand is on wrong, if it's not pointing straight up. I think you have a situation where you are misinterpreting what you are seeing. If it were really what you think it is, it would stop chiming completely and wouldn't work on any of the quarters.
 

R. Croswell

Registered User
Apr 4, 2006
10,920
1,080
113
Trappe, Md.
www.greenfieldclockshop.com
Country
Region
Thank you both for your replies. I will let the clock run for a while and see what happens. Shutterbug, are you asking if it ever chimes on the hour, or in general? It chimes perfectly at a quarter past, half past, and a quarter to, but I get nothing on the hour, apart from the "warning signal". Again, thanks!
Regards.
Most such movements have a chime correcting function that locks out the chime after the 3rd qtr. chime (the on-the-hour chime triggers the hour strike so that's locked to) until the minute hand shaft is actually in the "12:00" position. There is usually a star wheel on the shaft that has the minute hand. One of the star's arms is longer than the other three. That long arm is the only one that can unlock the chime/strike function on the hour. That insures that the correct melody will play. The actual mechanism is a bit different from maker to maker but there are usually some adjustments to the locking lever such that the long star arm will raise the lever enough to unlock at 12:00. It sounds to me like the chime correction locking lever and related parts may be out of adjustment. On some models the adjustment is rather critical. You might test this by locating the lever that lifts as the minute hand approaches 12:00 then just before the lever drops, raise it by hand a bit more, then turn the minute hand a bit past 12:00 and let the lever drop and see if it chimes the hour chime followed by the hour strike. Seems to be that if it can chime the other quarters, then it should chime the hour if the locking lever is raised enough to release on the hour, which requires more lift than the other quarters. Let us know what happens.

RC
 

shutterbug

Moderator
Staff member
NAWCC Member
Oct 19, 2005
46,149
1,764
113
North Carolina
Country
Region
That's what I was getting at, RC. But it's puzzling that it will chime the quarters, since as you mentioned if it is never raised high enough to lift at the hour it will never chime at all. I still think he has the hand on wrong, and is trusting his eyes instead of seeing what's really happening ;)
 

bangster

Moderator
Staff member
NAWCC Member
Jan 1, 2005
19,940
459
83
utah
Country
Region
Short cam lobe not lifting high enough to release the chime or chime correction?
 

R. Croswell

Registered User
Apr 4, 2006
10,920
1,080
113
Trappe, Md.
www.greenfieldclockshop.com
Country
Region
That's what I was getting at, RC. But it's puzzling that it will chime the quarters, since as you mentioned if it is never raised high enough to lift at the hour it will never chime at all. I still think he has the hand on wrong, and is trusting his eyes instead of seeing what's really happening ;)
I think you may be correct. Perhaps hand on wrong and not allowing it to run into the next hour until the chime correction takes place. Sounds like the hand is pointing to "3" when it should be pointing to "12" as it seems to unlock at "3" (one quarter late).

RC
 

Ticktocktime100

Registered User
Nov 11, 2012
1,326
101
63
France
www.collectorsweekly.com
Country
Problem solved! Again, many thanks. The minute hand was indeed not on properly. However, it seems that another issue has arisen with this clock: I can't put it in beat. It has an anchor escapement, and when I adjust it the pendulum swings, but the anchor part does not latch into each tooth of the escape wheel, preventing the latter from turning and the clock from ticking. At one point, I managed to get a few ticks out of it, but it abruptly stopped after approximately 30 seconds as if the anchor had got stuck. Could the anchor be somehow bent? I hope this description is comprehensible! Once again, if someone has any ideas as to the cause of this problem, their imput would be appreciated.
Regards.
 

JTD

Registered User
Sep 27, 2005
8,469
691
113
Country
Was it in beat before you changed the hand round? What method are you using to try to put it in beat?

JTD
 

R. Croswell

Registered User
Apr 4, 2006
10,920
1,080
113
Trappe, Md.
www.greenfieldclockshop.com
Country
Region
Problem solved! ........it seems that another issue has arisen with this clock: I can't put it in beat. It has an anchor escapement, and when I adjust it the pendulum swings, but the anchor part does not latch into each tooth of the escape wheel, preventing the latter from turning and the clock from ticking. At one point, I managed to get a few ticks out of it, but it abruptly stopped after approximately 30 seconds as if the anchor had got stuck. Could the anchor be somehow bent? .........
Regards.
Important question, did the clock run before you adjusted the anchor?
Next question, You say that you "adjusted" the anchor, exactly what adjustments did you make?
next question, if you move the pendulum all the way left and right does the escape wheel advance?

The anchor in a clock like this is unlikely to be bent unless someone intentionally bent it. The only provided adjustment of the anchor is to set how close it is to the escape wheel. If that adjustment has been changed and the pendulum abruptly stopped then the anchor is likely adjusted too close to the escape wheel or there is one or more bent teeth on the escape wheel. The tips of the teeth must be evenly spaced and not bent or curved. If the anchor is adjusted too far away from the escape wheel it may occasionally skip teeth and/or the clock will run weakly or not at all.

Adjusting the anchor an setting the beat are separate operations. The anchor is adjusted so that the escape wheel teeth release one at a time as the pendulum is moved left and right by hand. If you have a recoil anchor escapement the initial adjustment is to place the anchor as close as possible to the escape wheel while still allowing the teeth to be released when the pendulum is moved. If your "anchor" is a deadbeat type then the adjustment is a little more involved but the above is still a good starting point. We really need to see pictures of this movement and especially the anchor and escape wheel.

Adjusting the "beat" is setting up the crutch (the part that connects the pendulum to the anchor) such that the pendulum swings an equal distance each side of center on the tick and the tock. One can check the initial beat setting with the clock on a level surface by slowly moving the pendulum to the left of center until the anchor releases a tooth, then moving the pendulum right of center until the anchor releases a tooth. If the clock is in beat, the distance left of center and right or center should be the same. There is information in the "how to" section on adjusting the beat.

You must get the escapement working reliably before adjusting or "fixing" anything else.

RC
 

shutterbug

Moderator
Staff member
NAWCC Member
Oct 19, 2005
46,149
1,764
113
North Carolina
Country
Region
The clock beat setting mantra is :"Tilt the clock until it beats with pride, then move the crutch toward that high side".
 

Forum statistics

Threads
164,799
Messages
1,433,920
Members
85,808
Latest member
stylelined
Encyclopedia Pages
1,101
Total wiki contributions
2,863
Last edit
Rockford's early high grade movements by Greg Frauenhoff