I have continued my odd obsession and have 2 more Manhattans on the way and a token. The token raised a question. The usual location on them is 234 Broadway. The one I have on the way says 16 Park Place. There are a bit of a variation in font as well. When looking what I could up about MWCo there is no mention of a Park Place location. Ideas please
Do not know much about the Park Place Kevin but Dad's notes also talk about a Monroe Street as well Erin
Thank you both as usual. It appears then that the company had moved it's retail location a few times. Being Monroe is in 1891, close to the company collapse, makes me wonder where Park Place fits in. I will be on the lookout for a token with Monroe but I don't think there is one. Cost of making metal tokens was and is always more expensive than printing. To put a location means intent on it being perminantly there. I will post pics when it arrives.
Hi Greg, I already have it up and a copy printed for my file for Manhattan. Thanks for the pointer. A quick search of the doc shows a mention of the "Manhattan business office" being next door to the New Haven office on Park Place. The 1885 ad also is a New Haven ad that is for Manhattan watches. Like Mike says the two companies were very much intertwined. But this is the sticking point of the article. The statement is made that they were selling to trade only. The prices stated $6 and $5 were to the retailers. The tokens all say this price. Based on the construction of the tokens, more promo than token, intended for them to be cancelled by snapping off the stem. They would have had to have been given to retailers to redeem but it could not be one token per watch as that would not make sense. It makes more sense that Manhattan had these tokens given out to get people in to buy. Like a modern coupon clipping. But being the location was listed as Park Place on the token would mean they redeemed at the business office? My only plausible theory at the moment is the first promo\tokens were issued prior to the Broadway location. When they were just starting and needed to get watches into pockets. Thus the Park Place address. Then once they opened the Broadway location they changed the promo\token design to reflect this. The reason there may be no Monroe ones is because at the end the cost of having tokens made was not available in the budget as the credit was stretch razor thin. But further documentation may help as we go.
Crossman's book says they organized in 1883. Factory located at Monroe St. 1886 they increased capital to $150K and moved general offices from No. 20 Park Place to present location at 235 Broadway.
awesome! Thanks Pat. But the 20 instead of 16 is interesting. The token/promo says 16 Park Place. Possible a temp retail location? I need a copy of that book.
That would be: The Complete History of Watch Making in America - Reprinted from the Jewelers' Circular and Horological Review 1885-1887, Charles S. Crossman, Adams Brown Co., Exeter, NH, undated, but probably late 1980's.
Thanks Kent! Just found a copy and bought it.....now the wait. Any suggestions on a good source for "Dollar Watches"?
Interesting that they were in Monroe Street at the start and at close to the end of the Company's time, I wonder if they always had this location and sold from both over the years or moved back there due to cheaper associated costs as the business started to fail?
I think we are looking at business offices vs factory. I think the factory may have always been at Monroe St but the retail/business offices changed. First being the Park Place at either 16 or 20 and then to the Broadway address. But the factory remained at Monroe.
A source for the watches, or a book about them? For books: Timex - A Company and its Community, 1854-1998, Kathleen McDermott, Timex Corp., 1998 The Watch That Made The Dollar Famous - Encyclopedia of Dollar Watches, George E. Townsend, Col. G.E. Townsend, Alma, MI, 1974.
Thanks Kent. I was referring to the books. I just ordered the Townsend a few days ago as I thought that may be a good one. Does the Timex one take into account other companies or just their direct history?
It takes in the early history of their fore-bearers Kevin, such as, Jerome Manufacturing Company, Benedict & Burnham, Waterbury Clock Company, Buck and the Long-Wind and the like, but from what I have read no information with regard to the Manhattan Watch Company (unless I have missed it somewhere) Although it is great read in it's self, well worth the purchase price in my opinion.
Agree that it's well worth the read, and you can often find good, affordable used copies on ebay or Amazon. It's very insightful as to the history, social, political and economic issues during the development of the early dollar watches.
I looked up a NY, NY map, and found that 16 Park Place is at the corner of Park Place and Broadway. Harrold's Manhattan article (p155) says that Manhattan's business office was originally next door to New Haven Clock Co's office on Park Place. Page 157 of the article shows an ad with the 234 Broadway address and the article says that Manhattan dropped their relationship with New Haven and "opened a new sales office and showroom at 234 Broadway, around the corner from its original location..." As for 16 or 20 Park Place, it will likely take a little more searching, but I wonder if one of the addresses was actually New Haven Clock, if both addresses were the same building, or if they were in 2 different Park Place buildings before moving around the corner. I have noticed this type of address differences on Ingersoll ads, but haven't looked for period maps to see what buildings were in those locations. Regardless, it sounds like your Park Place token predates the ones with the Broadway address. Congratulations!!
