Making clocks to sell

[Steve Neul]

My background is woodworking. I've done everything from building furniture to antique repair and refinishing to kitchen cabinets but for the last 20 years I've been doing home remodeling. Now I'm at a point where I'm getting too old for that and I'm looking for another business to get into. Poking around on the internet it looks like mechanical clocks are going out of fashion so I'm looking for opinions if making clock cases is a good idea or not.

 

[KurtinSA]

I can't help much, but I would think there are a lot of uncased movements out there that people will want to have a case for. So often you'll read on the forum about a "box clock". That's what it basically is, someone built a nice case to hold an older movement.

One thing thing that I thought was pretty cool was the use of 3-D printing. Heard about it at a National a while back. The presenter told a story about an owner of an older wall clock that was missing one of the lower finials. He used his printer to make a new finial and painted it to match. Only the owner will know!!

Maybe the area of fixing or refurbishing old cases fits your skill set as well. If you have good skills at woodworking, you don't need no "stinkin'" 3-D printer!!

Kurt

 

[bruce linde]

don't mean to discourage, but I'm not sure how that would be a moneymaker. I hired a high-end artist of a furniture maker to make me a Clock case last year and paid several thousand dollars for it. I'm sure there are some clock makers here who make high-end movements who would love to have someone who could make a case for them… But I have to think that's a very small number of people, and the vast majority are looking for solutions that are cheap.

The antique clock market has softened… Except for the high end maybe… Like butter left in a hot sun . Doing fine work takes hours and hours and hours, and tons of dedication. My opinion is that there's no way you would get paid adequately for your time… Especially contrasted with what you might earn for remodeling kitchens and bathrooms.

either way, can you post photos of your work? That might be a way to assess interest based on response. Also, have you checked out the case construction and restoration forum?

 

[Steve Neul]

I can't help much, but I would think there are a lot of uncased movements out there that people will want to have a case for. So often you'll read on the forum about a "box clock". That's what it basically is, someone built a nice case to hold an older movement.

One thing thing that I thought was pretty cool was the use of 3-D printing. Heard about it at a National a while back. The presenter told a story about an owner of an older wall clock that was missing one of the lower finials. He used his printer to make a new finial and painted it to match. Only the owner will know!!

Maybe the area of fixing or refurbishing old cases fits your skill set as well. If you have good skills at woodworking, you don't need no "stinkin'" 3-D printer!!

Kurt

I'm not sure I would want to get into refurbishing old cases. I closed the antique repair shop because the work always took more work than I could charge for. Then sometimes I get into doing custom work for someone with strange ideas, I had a walnut wardrobe I refinished for a lady and she wanted it stained purple. I did it and she loved it, then 3 or 4 days later it came back to my shop, her husband hated it so I refinished it again. Then

they stopped payment on the check. I ended up having to sue them to get paid for refinishing it once.

I wouldn't need the 3d printer, I made this clock including the finials.

 

[JTD]

I wouldn't need the 3d printer, I made this clock including the finials.

You are certainly very skilled and you have done a fine job with that case.

Sadly, I agree with the others, you wouldn't be able to make money by case-making.

So often you'll read on the forum about a "box clock". That's what it basically is, someone built a nice case to hold an older movement.

That's not what I understand by a 'box clock'. To me a 'box clock' is a particular style of wall clock, ofen made in Germany, that was very common in the first quarter of the 20th century. True, they were boxlike, hence the name, but they weren't made to house older movements.

JTD

 

[Steve Neul]

don't mean to discourage, but I'm not sure how that would be a moneymaker. I hired a high-end artist of a furniture maker to make me a Clock case last year and paid several thousand dollars for it. I'm sure there are some clock makers here who make high-end movements who would love to have someone who could make a case for them… But I have to think that's a very small number of people, and the vast majority are looking for solutions that are cheap.

The antique clock market has softened… Except for the high end maybe… Like butter left in a hot sun . Doing fine work takes hours and hours and hours, and tons of dedication. My opinion is that there's no way you would get paid adequately for your time… Especially contrasted with what you might earn for remodeling kitchens and bathrooms.

either way, can you post photos of your work? That might be a way to assess interest based on response. Also, have you checked out the case construction and restoration forum?

From what I can tell on the internet it appears the younger generation is checking the time on their phones rather than having a clock. I could probably do modern looking clocks but I really don't have a taste for it. Anyway I would be competing with Walmart.

I can get all the remodeling work I want however last year I did a room addition for someone where I was lifting heavy timbers up a ladder to frame it and carrying roofing shingles up on a roof. I don't think there is a lot of 68 year olds doing work like that. I would like to make something small and since I like making clock cases I thought that might be a good fit. Anyway the profit for the remodeling isn't what it used to be, traffic in my area has increased so much I'm now spending 4 hours a day on the road to work 8.

As far as my woodwork, this isn't a clock but I made this table.

 

[Steve Neul]

You are certainly very skilled and you have done a fine job with that case.

Sadly, I agree with the others, you wouldn't be able to make money by case-making.



That's not what I understand by a 'box clock'. To me a 'box clock' is a particular style of wall clock, ofen made in Germany, that was very common in the first quarter of the 20th century. True, they were boxlike, hence the name, but they weren't made to house older movements.

JTD

That's what I've been thinking is why I wanted to ask opinions here. I don't have the skills to repair used movements so that would let me out buying old movements to build a case for. I looked up good brand new movements and the ones for mantle clocks were running more than 400 bucks with shipping. That wouldn't leave much to build a case. I didn't keep tract of the time I spent on the clock pictured but I don't believe I spent a lot of time on it. I have a cousin that asked me to make her something so I made the clock. Then there was a issue with the movement and my lack of skills it took me a long time to get running. It turned out the anchor escapement was too close to the wheel. I bought a cheap Kasseu clock off ebay and used the movement and glass to build the clock. Made it easier to have a case to get the dimensions off of.

 

[new2clocks]

To me a 'box clock' is a particular style of wall clock, ofen made in Germany, that was very common in the first quarter of the 20th century.

To add to what JTD stated, I believe the term 'box clock' was, for lack of a better term, the English language (more specifically, American) colloquial term for that style of case,

If memory serves me correctly, the German makers of this style of case never referred to the case style as a box clock.

For example, Junghans, in one of their 1920 catalogs, referred to what we now call 'box clocks' as Moderne Regulateure. Other German makers also had their own terms for 'box clock', and those terms usually included the concept of 'modern', as opposed to 'box'.

Regards.

 

[KurtinSA]

That's not what I understand by a 'box clock'. To me a 'box clock' is a particular style of wall clock, ofen made in Germany, that was very common in the first quarter of the 20th century. True, they were boxlike, hence the name, but they weren't made to house older movements.

JTD

I guess I'd never seen this explained. However, I have a Becker 1920s movement in a "box clock" case and from my limited experience, the woodworking seems to be from a later period of time. So, from that experience, I just figured that somewhere in the more recent past, someone built the case to hold the clock. It's not extraordinary by any means in terms of a case...just sides and back with simple tops and bottoms.

This is what led me to that conclusion:

Another Gustav Becker Clock

This is a wall-mounted clock my mother had. I can't find any marks on it...the pendulum has nothing on it. I've used a mirror to look a bit at the movement...a few numbers but I can't really make much out...it's difficult to see. It appears the only way to find out is to remove the screws...

mb.nawcc.org

Kurt

 

[JTD]

From what I can tell on the internet it appears the younger generation is checking the time on their phones rather than having a clock. I could probably do modern looking clocks but I really don't have a taste for it. Anyway I would be competing with Walmart.

I can get all the remodeling work I want however last year I did a room addition for someone where I was lifting heavy timbers up a ladder to frame it and carrying roofing shingles up on a roof. I don't think there is a lot of 68 year olds doing work like that. I would like to make something small and since I like making clock cases I thought that might be a good fit. Anyway the profit for the remodeling isn't what it used to be, traffic in my area has increased so much I'm now spending 4 hours a day on the road to work 8.

As far as my woodwork, this isn't a clock but I made this table. View attachment 763850

If you can do work like this, then I think you might consider bespoke work for customers who want something special. The table you made is beautifully done and not something you can pick up in a store.

HOWEVER.......I don't know how long it took you to make, but would you be able to sell it for enough to make a profit after you calculate time, labor and materials?

But your skill is certainly of the highest.

JTD

 

[bruce linde]

I don't know that it is as simple as young people have iPhones… Not that that is exactly what you're saying. I think that if you want to make money doing this you need to find the right customers. The right customers would be collectors and or clockmakers who have the bug, the passion, and the money to enable their passions . There is an active market for clocks that cost a lot of money... tens of thousands of dollars. most of the buyers on that level want all original, but they are also more likely to end up acquiring movements that need cases… Or cases that need restoration. You might want to look through the various forums here to see who is making higher end clocks and whether they are making or sourcing the cases. You might also check in with Clock dealers such as Steve Thompson at sundial farm in Long Island or Chet Hicks of Hicks antique clocks and show them your work… And then inquire as to the possibilities. The guy I used for my Clock case and I were both happy with the deal… But I probably would've preferred to pay a little less and he probably would've been happy to make more… All jobs require much less effort when they are motivated strictly by passion and to please oneself, rather than when you're working for someone else, on the clock (so to speak!)

My usual random thoughts… Hope they help

 

[JTD]

To add to what JTD stated, I believe the term 'box clock' was, for lack of a better term, the English language (more specifically, American) colloquial term for that style of case,

If memory serves me correctly, the German makers of this style of case never referred to the case style as a box clock.

For example, Junghans, in one of their 1920 catalogs, referred to what we now call 'box clocks' as Moderne Regulateure. Other German makers also had their own terms for 'box clock', and those terms usually included the concept of 'modern', as opposed to 'box'.

Regards.

This is all true, but I did not intend to imply that the description 'box clock' was used in German(y), simply that most of the clocks known in English by this colloquial term were German.

JTD

 

[Steve Neul]

If you can do work like this, then I think you might consider bespoke work for customers who want something special. The table you made is beautifully done and not something you can pick up in a store.

HOWEVER.......I don't know how long it took you to make, but would you be able to sell it for enough to make a profit after you calculate time, labor and materials?

But your skill is certainly of the highest.

JTD

I don't know how much work I have in the table either. I worked on it off and on for three years. I don't know if I could take on something that detailed anymore. I was around 25 when I made it and had more energy then.

 

[J. A. Olson]

When I think of 'box clock', I'm thinking of something in the mail. A box with a clock in it.
The French called them 'Carillons' or some variation thereof.



40 years ago it was popular for woodworkers to build up kit clocks from Emperor and similar companies, then resell the completed clocks to make a decent profit. By the 2000's this fell out of favor entirely as all of those kit companies have gone belly-up or are hanging by threads.

Ironically there's more profit to be made from scrapping out clocks for parts nowadays. A sad turn of the trade.

 

[JTD]

The French called them 'Carillons' or some variation thereof.

That is not quite correct. 'Carillon' means 'chime'. it has nothing to do with the clock case. The advertisement you have shown says (and it's the clock talking!) 'I bring joy and well-being into families. I chime gaily every quarter hour and [strike] the hours'. Then the ad goes on to say that the clock has 'genuine Westminster chime' (carillon).

It does not describe the case and is not the French term for what in English is often called a 'box clock'.

I wish I had never started this now.

JTD

 

[eemoore]

From what I can tell on the internet it appears the younger generation is checking the time on their phones rather than having a clock. I could probably do modern looking clocks but I really don't have a taste for it. Anyway I would be competing with Walmart.

I can get all the remodeling work I want however last year I did a room addition for someone where I was lifting heavy timbers up a ladder to frame it and carrying roofing shingles up on a roof. I don't think there is a lot of 68 year olds doing work like that. I would like to make something small and since I like making clock cases I thought that might be a good fit. Anyway the profit for the remodeling isn't what it used to be, traffic in my area has increased so much I'm now spending 4 hours a day on the road to work 8.

As far as my woodwork, this isn't a clock but I made this table. View attachment 763850

My goodness! You certainly know what you are doing and you are a real artist. Did you carve the figures? Quite outstanding, to say the least!

 

[J. A. Olson]

I wish I had never started this now.

If you go through further advertisements and French auction listings and see what they're called, you'll find exactly what I describe. I agree that using the term 'Carillon' to describe an entire subset of clocks can get very confusing when you realize the same word is also used to describe a chime melody. There is always going to be regional confusion of terminology no matter what and the prevalence of colloquialisms makes things even more confusing.

I believe the term 'box clock' was first used by contemporary American or English vendors who were reluctant to refer to those clocks as 'regulators' or 'carillons', but wanted some description more distinct than 'pendulum wall clock'. It would most accurately describe the 1930's era French and German cases which were very plain in appearance and quite literally box-shaped. The ornate and older cases are far more detailed and don't maintain such a 'boxy' appearance despite commonly being lumped into the same category.

I had thought that 'tambour' was a similar colloquialism, but I eventually found a handful of older trade advertisements that actually use the term.

As far as making clocks for profits go, I think you'd find more favor making parts for existing clocks. Make some finials or pendulums and start from there. 3D printing may also be a useful tool if you're inclined in working with CAD.

 

[Willie X]

Repairing clocks is very close to being a 'gone thing'. Where I live, making clock cases was a 'gone thing' about 35 years ago!

I used to make a lot of clocks. That was in the 1970s. There were 'craft shows' everywhere and people liked to buy anything that was hand made by a local, using local or recycled materials.

Not anymore!!! Willie X

 

[JTD]

If you go through further advertisements and French auction listings and see what they're called, you'll find exactly what I describe.

But they are not describing the cases.

The ornate and older cases are far more detailed and don't maintain such a 'boxy' appearance despite commonly being lumped into the same category.

I have never considered the older and more ornate cases to be 'lumped into the same category' as the box clocks, nor have I heard them so described.

I feel, with respect, that we shall have to agree to disagree on this subject.

I had thought that 'tambour' was a similar colloquialism, but I eventually found a handful of older trade advertisements that actually use the term.

The word tambour is certainly not a colloquialism, it is a recognised architectural term. Its colloquial equivalent, at least in the world of clocks, would be 'Napoleon Hat clock', though I am not sure if that is a term used in USA.

I am really sorry to have caused the OP's original thread to be hi-jacked.

JTD

 

[Steve Neul]

My goodness! You certainly know what you are doing and you are a real artist. Did you carve the figures? Quite outstanding, to say the least!

Except for the figure on the front right I carved them. At the time I was taking carving classes and the teacher, Ludwig Kieninger carved the left side of the face and I carved the right. Ludwig Kieninger

 

[Steve Neul]

I don't know that it is as simple as young people have iPhones… Not that that is exactly what you're saying. I think that if you want to make money doing this you need to find the right customers. The right customers would be collectors and or clockmakers who have the bug, the passion, and the money to enable their passions . There is an active market for clocks that cost a lot of money... tens of thousands of dollars. most of the buyers on that level want all original, but they are also more likely to end up acquiring movements that need cases… Or cases that need restoration. You might want to look through the various forums here to see who is making higher end clocks and whether they are making or sourcing the cases. You might also check in with Clock dealers such as Steve Thompson at sundial farm in Long Island or Chet Hicks of Hicks antique clocks and show them your work… And then inquire as to the possibilities. The guy I used for my Clock case and I were both happy with the deal… But I probably would've preferred to pay a little less and he probably would've been happy to make more… All jobs require much less effort when they are motivated strictly by passion and to please oneself, rather than when you're working for someone else, on the clock (so to speak!)

My usual random thoughts… Hope they help

I kind of expected if I was going to get into making clock cases I would have to do high end work. What worries me is how long it would take to get established as a clock maker.

 

[wisty]

Given your skills, it might be worth getting in touch with any clock repair operations in your local area. Most shops will outsource case repair work, and are likely to be the places that owners of movements are likely to go to should they want a case.

 

[the 3rd dwarve]

Steve,

If you research mid-century clock makers like Elmer Stennes, Wyane Cline, and Foster Campos you will see that while their clocks are still somewhat in demand the prices brought at auction has decreased in recent years and I think will continue to decrease in the future. Contemporary clock makers like The Vermont Clock Co. use Hermle movements and custom make the cases. You can check out their line here: ShakerGrandmother Clock by Vermont Clock Company

I have made a lot of case parts and finials over the years, many for members of this board, and I still do on occasion because I really enjoy standing in front of one of my lathes but I stopped making furniture and cabinets to sell about ten years ago and wouldn't start again. I definitely wouldn't do any work on speculation, I would seek commission work.

Your table is beautiful. I can only imagine how many hours you have into it. Three dimensional carving takes a special skill.

I wish you the best of luck in your endeavor.

D`

 

[Steve Neul]

Steve,

If you research mid-century clock makers like Elmer Stennes, Wyane Cline, and Foster Campos you will see that while their clocks are still somewhat in demand the prices brought at auction has decreased in recent years and I think will continue to decrease in the future. Contemporary clock makers like The Vermont Clock Co. use Hermle movements and custom make the cases. You can check out their line here: ShakerGrandmother Clock by Vermont Clock Company

I have made a lot of case parts and finials over the years, many for members of this board, and I still do on occasion because I really enjoy standing in front of one of my lathes but I stopped making furniture and cabinets to sell about ten years ago and wouldn't start again. I definitely wouldn't do any work on speculation, I would seek commission work.

Your table is beautiful. I can only imagine how many hours you have into it. Three dimensional carving takes a special skill.

I wish you the best of luck in your endeavor.

D`

I believe I may give it a try but will do it part time while I continue to do remodeling work. If and when it looks promising to make a go at it I will start doing less remodeling work. The worst can happen is I would get stuck with merchandise that didn't sell. Might start off making clocks I wouldn't mind keeping.

 

[Chris.K]

For what it's worth, now that I'm disabled and cant work I fix and repair clocks as a hobby. As well stated above that there is not a lot of money in it except for the "high-end" or oddity/niche clocks. I will find a decent clock cheap on E-Bay and then repair it to working order then re-sell it. I always try to make at least $25 per clock as that will buy bushings or something else. It's not an income but a hobby and the plus side is you can keep the one that comes out great. Here is a Seth Thomas I kept.. Cheers Chris..

 

[demoman3955]

seeing as how you made that clock, i wonder if it would be more profitable to reproduce clock case parts. Im thinking things like finials and moldings. I cant even count the number of clocks ive had over the years with missing or mismatched parts.

 

[Steve Neul]

That sounds resonable however I'm wondering how I could determine the design, size and type of wood and stain color of the parts needed. I would almost have to have one of the parts for a pattern. I have a wood and metal lathe and the means of custom making molding. I live near Dallas so I should be able to get most any hardwood. I have had an antique refinishing shop where I often made parts for furniture and matched the color. The only finishing issue I may have is the crazed texture of an old shellac finish. I haven't had any need to reproduce that anymore.