Makers mark

Discussion in 'General Clock Discussions' started by shimmystep, May 1, 2013.

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  1. shimmystep

    shimmystep Registered User

    Mar 5, 2012
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    I think I've seen this makers mark M.B discussed before but I can't find the thread with the search engine, MB tends to bring up discussions around the Message Board.
    If I remember rightly, I don't think there was a definitive answer, but I may be wrong.

    Quarter striking movement; does the arrangement on the hour rack tail give anyone clues as to the maker? Any ideas? TIA

    IMAG0086.jpg IMAG0087.jpg IMAG0088.jpg
     
  2. soaringjoy

    soaringjoy Registered User

    Feb 12, 2009
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    Oops. Usually "MB" in one form or another is associated with Matthias Bäuerle, so that's
    the easy part.
    The tricky part is, that I haven't seen this particular M.B. in an oval mark before and there
    are of course, several more listings on M.B., some of them "unknown".
    A Max Becker, Berlin, a wholesaler, also supposedly used it, but there's nothing to compare with afaik.
    However, it might well be, that the movement itself really was made by Bäuerle...
    I don't know this time and have to pass it on.
     
  3. shimmystep

    shimmystep Registered User

    Mar 5, 2012
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    Thanks Jurgen. I saw M Bauerle on Andreas's site, but as you say, it doesn't appear in this form. It's a good quality movement. Plate and pin on the rack tail is unusual I thought.
     
  4. harold bain

    harold bain Registered User
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    I recall repairing a nice British (I assumed) bracket clock with a movement with this stamp many years ago. Wasn't able to find a maker at that time. I suppose it could have been the sellers trademark and not the maker.
     
  5. Tony10Clocks

    Tony10Clocks Registered User

    Aug 10, 2010
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    It has some characteristics to Winterhalder & Hofmeier
     
  6. shimmystep

    shimmystep Registered User

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    Interesting you thought it was British Harold, could be. My first impression was German. It does come from an oversized large bracket clock case, I have just been given the movement to give a service. I'll get a pic of the case when it comes back from the cabinet maker.

    What characteristics do you think TB?
     
  7. harold bain

    harold bain Registered User
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    I hadn't as much experience at the time, and it could have been a W&H movement. If I recall correctly it had nested bells on high. This was about a dozen years ago, before I could have posted it here on the message board.
     
  8. Tony10Clocks

    Tony10Clocks Registered User

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    On the back it has the same type of crutch, similar suspension cock, the same type of washers on the back plate ( although that doesn't mean anything ). On the front the snail is held on by two screws, the rack is similar, thick plates thick rack and thick snail. I'm probably totally wrong, just an observation
     
  9. soaringjoy

    soaringjoy Registered User

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    W & H for one, was a company that definately built English influenced movement types, while the
    other companies in Baden mainly followed the French traditions.
    For that, W & H movements and cases are very British, indeed. ;)
     
  10. shimmystep

    shimmystep Registered User

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    They are fair observations indeed TB
     
  11. shimmystep

    shimmystep Registered User

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    I now have the case (first time I'd seen it) and have fitted the movement. Prompt any further thoughts? It stands 18in tall, and looks rather British. The keen eye will spot the Hermle minute hand replacement

    IMAG1821.jpg
     
  12. soaringjoy

    soaringjoy Registered User

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    A neat clock, Shimmy, but, alas, no match.
    Although there is a rule of thumb: Roman numerals = fancy hands / Arabic numerals = plain hands,
    there were wide variations and especially W&H often used the plain, spear shaped hands on those dials,
    as well as the fancy ones. I suppose, nobody will note your replacement on first or second sight. :)
     
  13. shimmystep

    shimmystep Registered User

    Mar 5, 2012
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    Thanks for the post and info Jurgen. I may drop the NAWCC library a line re the M.B mark, given it has appeared a few times on the MB as unknown.
     
  14. Albra

    Albra Registered User

    Oct 17, 2006
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    Greetings shimmystep

    I suspect that this MB logo belonged to wholesaler Max Busse in Berlin. According the "Lexikon" wholesaler Max Busse was founded in 1884 and was still active in 1940. And yes, the movement might be a M. Bäuerle. And of cours we know movements of M. Bäuerle with logos of wholesalers and retailers.

    As said just a guess, but it could fit.

    regards Albra
     
  15. soaringjoy

    soaringjoy Registered User

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    Max Busse. Yes, I would second that, Albra! ;)
     
  16. shimmystep

    shimmystep Registered User

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    Thank you Albra. Interesting. I had a look on Andreas's site for Busse's mark which came up with this
    74.jpg
    ...registered mark 1922, their earlier marks are not listed.
     
  17. soaringjoy

    soaringjoy Registered User

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    For the records, note the differences - or similarities, whatever you like. :D




    EMBEMaxBusse.jpg MBäuerleStGeorgen.jpg MatBäuerle.jpg

    And Max Becker, from a 1904 address book.

    1904.jpg
     
  18. Albra

    Albra Registered User

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    Little deviations between a protected trademark and logo on a movement are very common.

    As we know several very old and trademarks of Matthias Bäuerle, I think that this MB is not by him but by a customer. And when customers come with their own imprint in the first place wholesalers considered. Therefore, my guess is Max Busse, Berlin. But we cannot prove.

    albra
     
  19. shimmystep

    shimmystep Registered User

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    Thank you once again for your input and knowledge Albra, very much appreciated
     
  20. HowardHorology

    HowardHorology Registered User

    Mar 11, 2019
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    It seems I have just bought a clock with the M.B. in an oval mark which is a mystery for some.
    s-l1600 (61).jpg
    More photos here:My First Clock
     

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