Maker of this German Box clock?

Dugald McIntosh

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Apr 2, 2020
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Hi,
I just picked up this likely German box clock today.
No makers marks I can see
Strikes on a gong
Count wheel

Any idea who the maker is?
And a possible date of manufacture for the clock?
I can provide additional photos

Any info greatly appreciated
Dugald McIntosh
20210306_185211.jpg 20210306_185347.jpg 20210306_185410.jpg 20210306_185429.jpg 20210306_185256.jpg
 

Salsagev

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These may belong in generic German movements since various German makers made these without signing them.
 
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James McDermaid

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Apr 29, 2011
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I have a similar clock and it says HAC on a metal tag in the bottom of the case.

I believe this is American Hamburg, The logo is the crossed arrows stamped into the movement on mine.

Has the same pendulum suspension and seat board arrangement.

There was apparently a stigma over German products at this time and I am told that is why they didn't brand things.

Jim
 
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Dugald McIntosh

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These may belong in generic German movements since various German makers made these without signing them.
I was hoping that someone could tell the maker from the backplate... However I can see that, without a trademark, it could be difficult
 

Dugald McIntosh

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Apr 2, 2020
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I have a similar clock and it says HAC on a metal tag in the bottom of the case.

I believe this is American Hamburg, The logo is the crossed arrows stamped into the movement on mine.

Has the same pendulum suspension and seat board arrangement.

There was apparently a stigma over German products at this time and I am told that is why they didn't brand things.

Jim
Hi Jim,
Would the movement plates be the same as yours too?
 

new2clocks

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Apr 25, 2005
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I have a similar clock and it says HAC on a metal tag in the bottom of the case.

I believe this is American Hamburg, The logo is the crossed arrows stamped into the movement on mine.

Has the same pendulum suspension and seat board arrangement.

There was apparently a stigma over German products at this time and I am told that is why they didn't brand things.

Jim
Many German clocks were unsigned as the German manufacturers sold "loose" movements to the trade (wholesalers, distributors, retailers, etc.). Some movements were signed some unsigned. This was a common practice in the German (and French) clock industry.

There was no stigma, per se.

Regards.
 
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new2clocks

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Apr 25, 2005
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Hi,
I just picked up this likely German box clock today.
No makers marks I can see
Strikes on a gong
Count wheel

Any idea who the maker is?
And a possible date of manufacture for the clock?
I can provide additional photos

Any info greatly appreciated
Dugald McIntosh
View attachment 641750 View attachment 641749 View attachment 641751 View attachment 641752 View attachment 641753
My guess would be an unmarked Kienzle, but this is just a guess.

Regards.
 
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Dugald McIntosh

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My guess would be an unmarked Kienzle, but this is just a guess.

Regards.
I thought Kienzle too, since the pieces that keep the spring click ratchets in place (what are they called?) have a pointed shape, just like my other Kienzle 16150627125477671468672648657302.jpg
 

Salsagev

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Yes, I think it is Kienzle and not Mauthe because Mauthe would have a fraction on the back plate. The spring that keeps the ratchets in place is called a click spring.
 
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Dugald McIntosh

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Apr 2, 2020
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Yes, I think it is Kienzle and not Mauthe because Mauthe would have a fraction on the back plate. The spring that keeps the ratchets in place is called a click spring.
The piece I was referring to in particular is that black circular one I had my finger on, but thanks anyway. That Mauthe fraction thing is quite interesting, as that might help ID another unmarked movement I have, which has a fraction on it.
 

new2clocks

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So do we have enough evidence to safely say this is a Kienzle?

Thanks for the info
Kienzle was a major user of the patent for front plate countwheel. There are many examples of Kienzle movements that were marked with the Kienzle trademark and utilized the front countwheel.

However, Kienzle was not the inventor of front plate countwheel. Clearly, Kienzle at the very least licensed the use of the patent. Whether it was an exclusive license or whether Kienzle purchased the patent - we do not know.

As a result, it is possible that others used the patent, but, again, we do not know for sure.

But the front countwheel on a box clock is a very strong indicator that the movement is from Kienzle.

Regards.
 
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JTD

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The spring that keeps the ratchets in place is called a click spring.
I don't think he is referring to the click springs, I think he is talking about the dark colored 'keepers' which are positioned over the click wheels (read post #8 again).

JTD
 
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new2clocks

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Apr 25, 2005
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Ok, so I did a bit more Internet digging and I came across this - Box regulator - Haller A.G. - around 1950

So, I guess it's a Haller? I heard they had ties with Kienzle
Haller AG was purchased by Kienzle in 1928.

If the referenced clock is truly marked Haller AG, it most likely is a Kienzle movement. I say "if" since most sellers confuse Haller AG with Thomas Haller AG. NOTE - I could not open the listing.

I also do not believe the referenced clock is from 1950.

I believe your clock is a Kienzle from a time period prior to the Kienzle purchase of Haller AG.

Regards.
 
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Dugald McIntosh

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Apr 2, 2020
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Haller AG was purchased by Kienzle in 1928.

If the referenced clock is truly marked Haller AG, it most likely is a Kienzle movement. I say "if" since most sellers confuse Haller AG with Thomas Haller AG. NOTE - I could not open the listing.

I also do not believe the referenced clock is from 1950.

I believe your clock is a Kienzle from a time period prior to the Kienzle purchase of Haller AG.

Regards.
The listing showed a clock with an identical movement (which also looked unmarked) but a dial marked Haller AG with the sunrise gear logo. The style of the case however looked a fair bit later than that of mine, probably 30's (based on my very limited knowledge of case styles), so there is a good chance that clock was made after 28, and therefore had a movement by Kienzle.

So it might've been a Kienzle all along
 

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Rockford's early high grade movements by Greg Frauenhoff