Maker of this art-deco clock?

Discussion in 'General Clock Discussions' started by ta855, May 31, 2020.

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  1. ta855

    ta855 Registered User

    May 5, 2020
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    Hi all,

    I bought this clock from eBay a few days ago. It was listed as "Wooden Mantel Clock Striped Design". Seller said they didn't know the maker and the clock doesn't run. Anyway, I couldn't resist for $30.

    I was disassembling the movement, and I found no trademarks or indication of a manufacturer. I originally thought this was some sort of Sears clock. But Sears was a massive company and would at least put a label or some sort of brand. I think the movement is English or German. I have only one other clock with a rack striking mechanism and it's German. The pendulum bob is way too big for the movement. I did find "W03" on the chime rod stand. Not sure if that means anything.

    Not really much evidence of a maker, so if you have seen clocks with this movement or similar case please share.

    Thank you

    DSC_0042.JPG DSC_0045.JPG DSC_0046.JPG DSC_0049.JPG DSC_0032.JPG DSC_0033.JPG DSC_0038.JPG DSC_0051.JPG DSC_0054.JPG DSC_0031.JPG
     
  2. Andy Dervan

    Andy Dervan Registered User
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    It is difficult without any identification, but I believe you are correct English or German and probably 1930s as I have seen similar style cases from that period.

    Andy Dervan
     
  3. chimeclockfan

    chimeclockfan Registered User
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    It's German but I don't recall the exact maker. Almost every German clock factory was making bim-bam strike mantel clocks like this during the 1930's and even up through the 1950's. It isn't unheard of for clocks to go unsigned when sold through certain shops or retailers who wanted it sold under 'their' name, regardless of if it was signed with the retailer name. The chime rod block lot number doesn't mean anything regarding who made the clock.
     
  4. Andy Dervan

    Andy Dervan Registered User
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    What is interesting is that the lock is not marked as imported US import laws required items to labelled from where they came.

    Andy
     
  5. ta855

    ta855 Registered User

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    Strange. Could have been brought to the United States privately. Or is this the deal when it's a German movement in a Canadian made case?
     
  6. Andy Dervan

    Andy Dervan Registered User
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    I do not see any indication the case was made in Canada.

    The only company manufacturing clocks and cases in Canada was Arthur Pequegnat Co. in Kitchner

    Sometimes makers would apply a sticker on the clock as "German" when it arrived in US the sticker was pulled off.

    Later it was required to stamp on the movement country of origin.

    Andy Dervan
     
  7. new2clocks

    new2clocks Registered User
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    Andy,

    That requirement came about under the McKinley Tariff Act of 1890.

    Clearly, this clock is 30 to 60 years after the implementation of the above act.

    Most likely, this was a German clock made for the German market, which would require no such stamping on the movement or dial. It made itself to the Americas at some point later (possibly decades).

    Regards.
     
  8. D.th.munroe

    D.th.munroe Registered User

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    Of this age there were a couple companies in Canada making cases and putting German movements in them. I have not yet seen an unmarked movement in them though.
    Also I'm pretty sure all I've seen, have rubber stamped in the case or on the bottom of the case with a company name and made in Canada.
     
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  9. chimeclockfan

    chimeclockfan Registered User
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    This is the most likely scenario. With the global clock trade in full swing thanks to the likes of eBay and other resources, you'll find clocks popping up in countries they were not originally made for.
     
  10. new2clocks

    new2clocks Registered User
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    Not to mention the large amount of clocks brought back from Germany by the military post-WW II.

    Regards.
     
  11. David B Pendley

    David B Pendley Registered User
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    Only German movement I've seen with barrells flanged on main wheel was made by HAC.
     
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  12. ta855

    ta855 Registered User

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    This reminds me, I have an HAC wall clock that is not marked anywhere on the case or the movement. It too was probably made for the domestic German market. Maybe we're seeing the same thing here with this mantel clock.
     
  13. woodlawndon

    woodlawndon Registered User
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    I have a couple of Forestville clocks with unmarked German movements. I think this company imported both movements and cases and installed them here.
    Don
     
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  14. Andy Dervan

    Andy Dervan Registered User
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    There is no published information indicating that there was clock production in Canada with imported German movements.

    Canada is/was 1 /10 size of US in population and its attempts at clock manufacturing were stymied by clock mass production in US.

    Pequegnat was the only company making clocks - his company made their own movements and cases.

    If someone can should documented evidence about clock production using German movements I would willing to listen to it.

    Andy Dervan
     
  15. Burkhard Rasch

    Burkhard Rasch Registered User
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    the bajonet barrel caps were patented by Kienzle afaik.
    Best regards
    Burkhard
     
  16. woodlawndon

    woodlawndon Registered User
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    Geez, I dunno Andy. These two books alone document quite a few Canadian companies that both made and imported clocks in Canada.
    2D1D4DD5-1F31-4B0A-9242-37C61F9B2A09.jpeg

    As for the Forestville clocks I discussed above, here is an excerpt from the Canadian Clock Museum website describing these companies (Blackforest and Forestville) where they both imported movements/cases from Germany and made some in Kitchener.
    Don

    "The Blackforest Clock Company of Toronto, Ontario was set up by Leopold and Sara Stossel in 1928. Both clock movements and complete clocks were imported from Germany and sold through department and jewelry stores across Canada. Their son Ed Stossel started working part time with his parents' company in the 1930s, and later became a full-time employee in the late 1940s.

    Some assembly work was carried out in their Wellington Street East factory. Initially, imported mantel clock and grandfather clock movements were installed in cases made in Kitchener, but later the complete mantel clocks were imported from Germany. This arrangement was interrupted by the Second World War, which also led to a name change to the Forestville Clock Company in 1941.


    During the war years this company used clock movements from England, the United States, and even France. The wood cases for their mantel clocks were ink-stamped Made in Canada. However, starting in the mid 1950s German factories again became the source of most Forestville clocks, with Mauthe being a major supplier.


    The Forestville Clock Company was very successful during the middle decades of the twentieth century. Its grandfather clock cases and some of the wall clock cases were made in Canada. Ed Stossel retired in 1979; unfortunately the company survived just a few more years without his leadership.


    There are many thousands of these clocks in Canadian homes. Look for wood-cased mantel clocks and porcelain wall/desk clocks with the script name Blackforest or Forestville on the dial. Most Blackforest and Forestville wood mantel clocks still have their paper labels tacked inside the back door.


    We wish to thank Ed Stossel for the provision of a detailed companies history and several old photographs and company catalogues. He visited our museum a few years after we opened."
     
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  17. D.th.munroe

    D.th.munroe Registered User

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    #17 D.th.munroe, Jun 1, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2020
    I have a few forrestvilles and have seen 100's, also a few marked with this stamp (this had a france marked kienzle)

    15910192198943383516448884206959.jpg
    Edit: I should add this clock has no makers mark on the front an identical one, same quality cabinets made in Canada stamp was marked Elg-Art on the dial.
    Dan
     
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  18. ta855

    ta855 Registered User

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    I found this Kienzle made mantel clock that has the same pendulum bob as the one I bought. The pendulum is too big for my clock though.

    Kienzle Nutwood & Palisander Art Deco Mantel Clock

    Also could the "W" on the chime rod block lot number have anything to do with Württemberg?
     
  19. new2clocks

    new2clocks Registered User
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    I doubt it. But, I can not exclude the possibility.

    One fallacy about clocks is that a "maker" of a movement made the whole clock - soup to nuts, so to speak. This is not always the reality, however.

    Many clocks with a marked movement contain parts such as gong rods, gong holders, dials, cases, pendulums, etc., that were sourced by independent companies. Many times, these same independent firms also sold the same parts to competitors of the marked movement makers. This is why it is best to identify the movement, since the movement is the heart of the clock. All other pieces of the clock are ancillary to the movement.

    This is why identification of an ancillary clock part can be misleading in the identification of the movement maker.

    Movement makers also sold "loose" movements to the trade. Many of these loose movements were unmarked. There were many clock assemblers who would purchase these loose movements and market the clock under their name.

    Getting back to the clock in question, identification of the movement maker is the key.

    Regards.
     
  20. ta855

    ta855 Registered User

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    Thank you for telling me this. I know lots of American companies made there own pendulum bobs for mantel clocks. Thanks for letting me know this is not the same practice everywhere.
     
  21. new2clocks

    new2clocks Registered User
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    As you correctly inferred from my post, I was speaking specifically about the German clock industry and even more specifically the mass production of German clocks, as opposed to those made, say, around 1800.

    Regards.
     
  22. Andy Dervan

    Andy Dervan Registered User
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    You need to consider time periods discussing Canadian Clock production

    US clockmakers immigrated to Canada in early 1820s and brought wooden movements with them and later imported wooden movements from US and made cases locally - all well documented

    The Varkaris and Connelll book discuss two short lived clock companies in Canada - they could not survive due to competition from US clocks during 1890s

    The only really successful Canadian clock company was Arthur Pequegnat

    By 1850 American clock companies were mass producing clocks and shipping them all over the world.

    After American Civil War clock production consolidated to about 7 - 8 makers that turned out immense amounts of clocks up to 1900. Depression in 1890's impacted severe some of them, but production continued in large quantities until great depression in 1930.

    Andy Dervan
     
  23. woodlawndon

    woodlawndon Registered User
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    I'm not really following. You stated that Canadian companies didn't import German movements for production, I showed that they did. I even possess a couple. Now you're discussing impressive American companies. OK.
    Don
     
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  24. D.th.munroe

    D.th.munroe Registered User

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    While all that is true Andy, what I was refering to was clocks stamped Made in Canada with foreign movements contemporary with the OP's clock 1930's or 40's, like this poor one with an English movement. I have, somewhere, ones with German movements as well.

    15910576011124988057390682298075.jpg 15910579632341695855930758292105.jpg
     
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