Lovely Ladies -- American

[Ethan Lipsig]

In post #46, I said that only 500 Riverside Maximum Model 1890 6-size watches were made, 200 hunters and 300 OF. Jerry Treiman has advised me that all 500 R.M. Model 1890s were hunters. I had gotten my incorrect information from a chart in an October 1980 NAWCC builletin article by Peyton Autry (#208, p531). Jerry told me that "there was a more correct and complete article in the April 1985 Bulletin by Steve Lindberg (#235, p174). The 6-size production is somewhat corrected in the latter reference, stating only 500 total with no breakdown of hunting or open-face. I have photos of examples throughout the run and all are hunting case movements."

 

[Jerry Treiman]

In the early ‘teens Waltham was promoting their smallest ladies’ watches (6/0, 10-ligne, 9-ligne) to people of means. In their 1911 “Gift Book” they said:

The Ten Ligne is, perhaps, more particularly adapted as a gift for those women who are abundantly supplied with this world’s goods -- who “have everything” as we say, or who “were born with a golden spoon.”​

Waltham worked, in particular, with two of the smaller casemaking shops - J. Depollier & Son (Dubois Watch Case Co.) and H.W. Matalene - to produce some elegant pendant watches. Here is an example by Dubois with a 10-ligne movement, from 1911.


Here are three different-size examples by Matalene, all incorporating one of his patented setting systems to make the watch look more like a locket. These are from 1912 & 1913.

 

[Clint Geller]

I think this Waltham is my most outstanding American pendant watch. It has a diamond-accented platinum case. The 17-jewel, 9-ligne "Patrician" movement was a private label model for the case maker - H.W. Matalene. This unique piece was one of several featured in a 1913 full-page advertisement.
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That case almost looks like a banjo. Banjos were very popular around 1913.

 

[Clint Geller]

I am sure this has been posted before, but I could not find the thread tonight. This is one of my favorite ladies.

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Tom, Have you ever checked the reverse of that terrific dial? I wouldn't be surprised if it is signed by Josiah Moorhouse.

 

[Steven Thornberry]

That case almost looks like a banjo. Banjos were very popular around 1913.

Some what similar in style to this New Haven clock, classified as a banjo clock.

 

[Clint Geller]

Some what similar in style to this New Haven clock, classified as a banjo clock.

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"[The banjo] lays claim to being our national instrument. [For] what the mandolin is to Italy, and the guitar is to Spain, the banjo is to America." - David L. Day (a historically important banjo maker), in "The Banjo and its Public," The Music Trades, 21 January, 1905, p.45.

This passage was quoted in America's Instrument: The Banjo in the Nineteenth Century, by Philip Gura and James Bollman, UNC Chapel Hill, 1999, the foremost literary work on its subject.

 

[Tom McIntyre]

Pretty watches, Tom and Jon.

Jon, your pictures are so small that I find it hard to see enough detail to venture a guess as how your watch is odd unless it is because it is a 1-size Model 1882 erroneously listed in Waltham records as a 3-size or because it is one of the few of this grade to have a damascene, rather than frosty, finish. You co-authored an October 2007 Bulletin article on the subject, but I haven't looked at for more than a dozen years.

Tom, your fondness for 00-size AWCO OMs inspired me to acquire one, but all I could ever find was a nice movement.

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I sold it after a few years of vainly trying to find a case for it. I have given up trying to find a cased example. The closest I likely ever will get is this 14k 1-size frosty-finish Am'n Watch Co. Model 1882. This movement resembles OM movements. How closely related are they Tom?

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Ethan, If you do not mind a recase the open face 3/0 Waltham watch case is very likely to fit your OF conversion 00 movement (if you run across another one.) I have a couple that have been awaiting a really nice 14K OF 3/0 case for several years now.

 

[Ethan Lipsig]

I've already posted photos of my two prettiest Elgin ladies, my Frances Rubie and my Grade 201. I only have two other Elgin ladies in my pocket watch harem, both nice, both not-quite-as-nice relatives of the first two.

18k Grade 29 Lady Elgin

This is a size 10 15 jewel KW watch, circa 1870. It is a lower grade relative of my Frances Rubie.



18k Grade 205 Shreve PL with 18k Pin

This 19 jewel, circa 1900, size 0 watch is the open face equivalent of Grade 201. Grades 201/205 were one of the finest movements Elgin ever made. Both my Grade 201 and 205 watches are Shreve PLs and both are in A.W.C.Co. cases, but my Grade 201's case is beautifully engraved, while the Grade 205 is in a plain polished case.

 

[Ethan Lipsig]

I have shown all but two of my American ladies in earlier posts. Here are my last two:

Model 1900 Waltham Riverside Maximus in 14k Keystone OF Case, circa 1907. This is a fairly common 0-size watch. Others have already posted photos of their examples, e.g., in post ## 25 and 28.



Howard G-Size Series VI in 18k E.H. & Co. Hunter Case. This circa 1885 15 jewel watch is a Howard equivalent of a 6-size watch.

 

[musicguy]

Here is a nice 130 year old Elgin "lovely lady" 0s. This grade(#112) was the first 17J 0s for Elgin.




Rob

 

[musicguy]

One of these days I will find an appropriate case for it.


Rob

 

[4mula1fan]

3/0 Hampden Molly Stark. 25 yr Dueber Special case. Refurbished this one for my wife. 2607551

 

[4mula1fan]

0s Waltham Seaside. 13918539. Did this for the wife as well. 20 yr J.Boss case.

 

[Jerry Treiman]

This is a picture I took a while back to illustrate the range of sizes for American ladies watches. I did not include a 10-size, 4-size, 3/0 or 5/0 at the time.


I think this next image is also interesting. Waltham produced this illustration as part of a 1921 article on the Evolution of Woman's Watch.

 

[Shawn Moulder]

Here is a very lovely Waltham ladies watch. The watch is adorn with multi color gold and cabochon garnets. This watch reminds me of some what of the agate Waltham watch.

 

[Jerry Treiman]

Lovely watch Shawn. Who was the casemaker?

Do you know what makes the darkened background?

 

[Shawn Moulder]

Hey Jerry, the case is marked AWCO and is 18k. I believe the case has a frosted finish to it making it appear dark.

 

[schleems18]

6s, Elgin grade 101, in a solid 14k Courvoisier & Wilcox Mfg. Co. case.

 

[Rodney Leon]

The only small Ladies watch I have, I could not pass it up. Ball 1903, Queen, 0 size. Model 1900, 17 jewel, Pendent set. Adjusted. Brotherhood of railway trainman( BRT .on dial.) Fahys Bristol Garanteed 20 year gold filled case. Only needed a new main spring.

 

[Tom McIntyre]

I love the dial on your BRT Queen. Those seem to me to be pretty scarce.

 

[Rodney Leon]

I love the dial on your BRT Queen. Those seem to me to be pretty scarce.

Thanks for that Tom, I don't know for sure but It looks like they may have a lot of the Brotherhood marks on the dials or could be ordered that way, from the ad I found. Maybe someone else would know. It is hard to find photos of them to compare. Here is a better close up as well of the printing on the dial.

 

[Jerry Treiman]

The only small Ladies watch I have, I could not pass it up. Ball 1903, Queen, 0 size. Model 1900

What a lovely little watch these are. I believe, though, that yours is the 1891 model which is had a little bit lower production than the 1900 model, like this one. (I need to find an 1891 model).

 

[Greg Frauenhoff]

A movement only that was handy:

 

[Greg Frauenhoff]

Another mvt only:

 

[darrahg]

Here is another Rockford. This is a 0s m1 g185 17j Iroquios.