Loose bushing

sylvester12

Registered User
Oct 17, 2015
623
97
28
Country
Hi what's the best way to tighten a loose bushing without taking the movement apart.
 

sylvester12

Registered User
Oct 17, 2015
623
97
28
Country
No the bushing is loose I found it in the bottom of the clock and put it back in the front plate. I know it wont stay there I have no bushings here. It's just an old sessions tambour I said I try and get it running for the guy.
 

wow

Registered User
NAWCC Member
Jun 24, 2008
4,454
358
83
75
Pineville, La. (central La.)
Country
Region
If it’s not too loose you may be able to use loctite to secure it. If you stake the plate around it, it will look sloppy. The professional way would be to replace it with a new tight bushing, but if you don’t have one, try the loctite.
 

Willie X

Registered User
Feb 9, 2008
12,774
987
113
If a bushing fell completely out of the movement you probably have some other problems. I think you should take it apart and make things right. Or, send it to someone who can do the necessary work for you. Willie X
 

woodlawndon

Registered User
NAWCC Member
Jan 18, 2017
708
177
43
Woodlawn, Ontario
Country
Region
I think you have to go in Sly. Make it right and the guy will probably be a customer for life. Sessions clocks are are on the lower end but they are decent clocks when running well. Make it right as Mike Holmes would say.
Don
 

Bruce Alexander

Registered User
NAWCC Brass Member
Feb 22, 2010
7,147
702
113
Country
Region
If the bushing fell out under power there may be other issues. I agree with all the other folks. This one needs to come apart for servicing if the clock is to be run.
 
  • Like
Reactions: NEW65

shutterbug

Moderator
NAWCC Member
Oct 19, 2005
44,254
1,346
113
North Carolina
Country
Region
If this is a freebie for someone, then LocTite is worth a try. It may have been worked on by someone who made the hole for the bushing too big, and let it slide.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: NEW65 and Kevin W.

Kevin W.

Registered User
NAWCC Member
Apr 11, 2002
22,683
407
83
63
Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Country
Region
I agree with what Shutt said. I hope the loctite works.
 

David S

Registered User
NAWCC Member
Dec 18, 2011
7,205
248
63
Brockville, On Canada
Country
Region
Folks are just trying to answer the original question
"Hi what's the best way to tighten a loose bushing without taking the movement apart.?"

David
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kevin W.

Bruce Alexander

Registered User
NAWCC Brass Member
Feb 22, 2010
7,147
702
113
Country
Region
I really doubt that the bushing just fell out of the plate. I've seen a lot of damage caused in a powered gear train by a loose bushing/damaged pivot.

Whatever method that will work when the movement is intact (LocTite, etc.) will still work on a movement which has been properly taken apart for inspection and service.

If the movement is in good condition otherwise, it will go right back together without that much time and trouble.

In my view, without thorough knowledge of the background situation (i.e. something you've just done), there is no "best way" to tighten a loose bushing without taking the movement apart. I think this is particularly true when the bushing was found in the bottom of the clock's case. Just glue it back in? Really? An old Sessions Tambour. Are we talking a simple Time and Strike, or something more daunting?

I guess it depends on what you've committed to.

Again, that's just my opinion.

Good luck with it.
 

Vernon

Registered User
NAWCC Member
Dec 9, 2006
835
90
28
Country
Region
Or you could just simply turn the job down if someone is trying to be a cheep skate. If it's a charity type job, well then you could decide to do it right.
 

R&A

Registered User
Oct 21, 2008
4,203
107
63
Country
Folks are just trying to answer the original question
"Hi what's the best way to tighten a loose bushing without taking the movement apart.?"

David
Best way to fix your problem is to tear the clock down and put in bushings that won't fall out. They should be a tight friction fit. And they should be fitted to the pivot with cutting broaches and smoothing broaches. Never use loctite I have been doing this trade for over 43 years and have never ever used a less than lower standard to fix a clock. Like using Loctite
Plus gluing the pivot into the clock bushing would result from this if the clock is together with Loctite.
David why didn't you answer the question:???:? Or help
 

Savageblunder

Registered User
Nov 10, 2019
52
11
8
48
Gilbertsville PA
Country
I have a question about bushing replacement. I’m assuming there are various sizes; how does one go about ordering the correct size? Is there an assortment?
 

R. Croswell

Registered User
Apr 4, 2006
10,641
949
113
Trappe, Md.
www.greenfieldclockshop.com
Country
Region
I have a question about bushing replacement. I’m assuming there are various sizes; how does one go about ordering the correct size? Is there an assortment?
Suppliers list dozens of sizes. Order bushings that are closest to the size of the pivot and thickness of the plate. There are assortments but these usually contain sizes that are seldom used. Just as important as the bushing, get the correct size reamer to ensure that the hole into which the bushing is pressed will be the right size for a proper friction fit. Properly installed bushings don't just fall out.

RC
 
  • Like
Reactions: NEW65

NEW65

Registered User
Nov 17, 2010
1,252
42
48
United Kingdom
Country
Region
I fitted the rear bushing for the gathering pallet gear (yesterday). When I fitted the gathering pallet on the arbor a few hours later, I used my usual method to firmly locate it back in place ie a small metal tube and light hammer! The joke is that I had fitted so many bushings in this movement that I’d forgot I’d fitted the rear bushing! When I did finally remembered I expected the rear bushing to have fallen out or at least moved out of position! However I had fitted it that well that it hadn’t budged one fraction!
 

shutterbug

Moderator
NAWCC Member
Oct 19, 2005
44,254
1,346
113
North Carolina
Country
Region
How is it that when the job is a "freebie" or for some little old lady on a small fixed income that this somehow justifies doing inferior or second rate repair work?

RC
The second rate work was already done, and probably the 'little old lady' paid dearly for it. Our OP is trying to be helpful without pinching the poor thing for a second repair bill.
I suspect this clock is on the edge of either use or destruction. LocTite could provide a fix that is effective and strong. Not the best solution, for sure .... but perhaps the only solution here that might save the clock from the land fill. Personally I would not feel bad about providing that fix, while explaining what was done and why.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kevin W.

R&A

Registered User
Oct 21, 2008
4,203
107
63
Country
The second rate work was already done, and probably the 'little old lady' paid dearly for it. Our OP is trying to be helpful without pinching the poor thing for a second repair bill.
I suspect this clock is on the edge of either use or destruction. LocTite could provide a fix that is effective and strong. Not the best solution, for sure .... but perhaps the only solution here that might save the clock from the land fill. Personally I would not feel bad about providing that fix, while explaining what was done and why.
Okay so how would you install a bushing with the movement together and use Loctite and not get this garbage on the pivot. Seriously this is how you would tell somebody to repair clocks with all your knowledge And what would be the explanation that you would tell the customer. I don't know how to repair clocks so I did this to your clock because somebody on the NAWCC message board told me it was okay and they seemed knowledgeable.
And you go on to say you would not feel bad about providing this fix. Is this how you fix clocks at your shop seriously. WOW
 
  • Like
Reactions: POWERSTROKE

wow

Registered User
NAWCC Member
Jun 24, 2008
4,454
358
83
75
Pineville, La. (central La.)
Country
Region
It was obvious from the first two posts that Sylvester was asked to get the clock going. Nothing was mentioned about proper or professional repair. Just get the bushing back in somehow and get it going. In my post #4, I explained that the professional way to do it was to install a new tight bushing. No, R&A, I do not loctite bushings in place. If he is determined or inclined to help out the guy and get it going without much work, loctite may be the only way. I would disassemble the movement and do it right.
 

Kevin W.

Registered User
NAWCC Member
Apr 11, 2002
22,683
407
83
63
Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Country
Region
Often i get asked to get a clock going. many people dont feel its worth to pay for a complete tear down, cleaning, polishing and bushings. The old saying is the customer is always right. Its not necesaryly what the repair person would do, to his own clocks or for a customer paying for a complete job. As mentioned it can be the difference between a running clock or one that gets trashed.
 

R&A

Registered User
Oct 21, 2008
4,203
107
63
Country
Often i get asked to get a clock going. many people dont feel its worth to pay for a complete tear down, cleaning, polishing and bushings. The old saying is the customer is always right. Its not necesaryly what the repair person would do, to his own clocks or for a customer paying for a complete job. As mentioned it can be the difference between a running clock or one that gets trashed.
So fix the clock regardless of the standards as long as the customers is happy and it's not in the trash ??
 

bangster

Moderator
NAWCC Member
Jan 1, 2005
19,873
443
83
utah
Country
Region
What do you guys charge for the tear-down itself, apart from whatever repairs are done?
Teardown + replace one bushing?
Teardown, inspect parts, put back together?
Or do you suppose that any time you take a clock apart, you give it the full service + repairs?
Just askin'.
 

R&A

Registered User
Oct 21, 2008
4,203
107
63
Country
What do you guys charge for the tear-down itself, apart from whatever repairs are done?
Teardown + replace one bushing?
Teardown, inspect parts, put back together?
Or do you suppose that any time you take a clock apart, you give it the full service + repairs?
Just askin'.
I thought we weren't suppose to talk charges in here
 

Kevin W.

Registered User
NAWCC Member
Apr 11, 2002
22,683
407
83
63
Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Country
Region
Well for 40 dollars i am not doing a teardown. So fix the clock regardless of the standards as long as the customers is happy and it's not in the trash ?? Whose standards are we refering to? The message board or yours? I dont work for free, and i do as the customer asks.
I believe a while back we were told on the mb we cant talk about what we charge for repairs.
 

R&A

Registered User
Oct 21, 2008
4,203
107
63
Country
Well for 40 dollars i am not doing a teardown. So fix the clock regardless of the standards as long as the customers is happy and it's not in the trash ?? Whose standards are we refering to? The message board or yours? I dont work for free, and i do as the customer asks.
I believe a while back we were told on the mb we cant talk about what we charge for repairs.
Yep saw the same thing on the MB about charges I guess the standards change like the wind and rules the change. I guess it all depends on coffee sleep and meds
 
  • Like
Reactions: NEW65

Bruce Alexander

Registered User
NAWCC Brass Member
Feb 22, 2010
7,147
702
113
Country
Region
Simply gluing the old bushing back in isn't much more than oiling the movement. I would think someone offering such a service would/should charge accordingly. Take the clock in, discuss everything with the customer, pull the movement, glue the bushing back in, oil the movement (?), test the movement(?), return the clock to the customer, go over operating instructions/questions and bid the customer farewell. I suppose you can guarantee that the glued bushing will stay in. Better take a lot of photos! You've still got some time and effort invested whatever you do for the customer. Why not provide a quality service while the clock is in your shop?

If the customer wants you to take short-cuts and do something that you know is shoddy, you can always tell them thanks but no thanks. If your reputation is for cheap work, you'll probably get more than your fair share of cheap customers. If that is what makes you happy, go for it. Someone has to meet that demand. Personally, I don't have the pressure of earning a living so I can pick and choose what I take in. If the customer doesn't want to pay for quality service, I would suggest that they take it back to whoever placed the loose bushing for warranty work or follow-up. If that is not an option, for whatever reason, I'd just remind the consumer of the old adage, "You get what you pay for." and wish them well. They can keep looking for a shop that will do what they tell them to do. It's their time, but they'll waste no more of mine. If they simply decide to throw their clock in the garbage, that's their decision, not mine. Maybe you take the clock off their hands cheap and then it's your decision what to do with the clock.

As far as what I would charge in this case, it would depend on what I found when I examined the movement. If all I end up doing is taking the movement apart, inspecting it, replacing the "loose bushing", putting it all back together, lubricating and testing it, I suppose I would charge a reasonable hourly repair rate as a minimum (which has already been agreed upon). If I don't have to resurface pivots, place a bunch of bushings and/or perform repairs, it shouldn't take me too long on a simple Sessions Time and Strike. You don't have to use LocTite. If you want to re-use the old bushing all you'd have to do is peen it back into the plate and broach it to size. I would include a warranty on this kind of service. If the previous overhaul is substandard and I find a lot of issues, or damage caused when the loose bushing "fell" out of the plate, the customer will have some informed decisions to make.

Do whatever makes you happy in your shop.

Bruce
 

woodlawndon

Registered User
NAWCC Member
Jan 18, 2017
708
177
43
Woodlawn, Ontario
Country
Region
I've enjoyed reading this thread and the different philosophies being discussed, no need to get hostile if others approaches are dissimilar. I don't have a business, but have taken in quite a few clocks to repair, I don't work on them to support myself so my approach will be quite different. I just enjoy working on old clocks.

Every clock I take in gets a full teardown and service regardless of what I'm being paid (or not), every single time. Just this week I repaired a clock for a gentleman I've known for 30 years, we aren't friends, just acquaintances. I happen to know that he is just barely getting by month to month financially, but a very nice man. He brought me a clock of his father's, he loves it and heard I worked on clocks. I had close to 8 hours into it but lied to him and told him it just needed a slight adjustment to a couple of levers and charged him $20. He was thrilled and knew darned well I wasn't telling him the truth just by looking at it and seeing it run. I received a Christmas card later with an LCBO (booze store) gift certificate inside. If I sell a clock I give them my number and tell them to call me if something goes wrong in the next year or so. Just my approach, I don't mind if others disagree or me with them.
Don
 

Kevin W.

Registered User
NAWCC Member
Apr 11, 2002
22,683
407
83
63
Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Country
Region
If i wanted to make money i would do overtime at my current job. When i do work, i get paid for what i do.Sorry all but i dont do a complete tear down without the clock owners permission.I dont call it bad repairing if you do what you were asked to do on a clock repair.
As far as standards this was discussed too. Being hostile towards others is never helpful, Whether in real life face to face with people or people here posting on the message board.
So when you take your car in for a oil change you get a engine over haul thrown in too.:p:p
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: NEW65

Bruce Alexander

Registered User
NAWCC Brass Member
Feb 22, 2010
7,147
702
113
Country
Region
So when you take your car in for a oil change you get a engine over haul thrown in too.:p:p
If it threw a bearing, I'd probably have to. Either that or have it towed elsewhere... :rolleyes:
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kevin W.

David S

Registered User
NAWCC Member
Dec 18, 2011
7,205
248
63
Brockville, On Canada
Country
Region
To follow up on your post Kevin, I think repairing clocks can be about as much about judgement as it is skill. I certainly don't tear apart every movement that comes into my shop. I do a through examination, and if the pivot holes all look good, I clean them and reoil and attend to any other issues that it may have come in for. Of course this is a hobby for me and I perform pretty much as a charity to my customers.

However back to this thread topic. It appears that the OP was not at his shop when he asked for advice, but it seems like he was perhaps visiting someone and this opportunity came up. So it is really an unprepared field repair and not what we would do in our fully equipped shop.

David
 
  • Like
Reactions: NEW65 and Kevin W.

Kevin W.

Registered User
NAWCC Member
Apr 11, 2002
22,683
407
83
63
Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Country
Region
I agree David, i always suggest that what i believe is best for the clock to a customer. We all have different opinions and thats okay.
 

Bruce Alexander

Registered User
NAWCC Brass Member
Feb 22, 2010
7,147
702
113
Country
Region
Well, we haven't heard from the OP since #3 so perhaps we're all reading too much into a situation we don't have many facts on. Unless he carries around some LocTite in his tool box, he wouldn't be performing a field repair anyway. Maybe the clock's owner had some superglue instead? :whistle:
 

R. Croswell

Registered User
Apr 4, 2006
10,641
949
113
Trappe, Md.
www.greenfieldclockshop.com
Country
Region
It is one thing to do more work than the situation calls for but something entirely different to adjust the quality of the repair according to the person's ability to pay for the service. In my opinion both practices should be avoided. There will always be valid different opinions about what is the "proper" method to use for a given repair but I feel that all my customers deserve the same quality work. Charity work is fine but one will soon have more than they can do. Sometimes we all come up against something we want and can't afford. It is OK to say sorry, this is what it will cost to do a proper repair, perhaps you would like to get a second opinion.

RC
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kevin W.

Kevin W.

Registered User
NAWCC Member
Apr 11, 2002
22,683
407
83
63
Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Country
Region
All great opinions expressed in this thread.
 

JimmyOz

Registered User
Feb 21, 2008
573
105
43
Gold Coast Qld
Country
Region
Working for free, our golf course is run by volunteers (of which I am one), we have one full time greenkeeper who takes care of the greens and the machines. In the past year alone I have done about 8 clocks for free for those who volunteer, 2 of which were triple chime weight driven GF clocks that needed rebushing. I have a few others that come along with clocks, however they do not do anything to help, I give them a cost for repair, funny they don't want them fixed!
As for the original question, if the person does it himself so be it, however if you cut corners, better expect it to come back to you as you were the last person to work on the clock even though you may have explained this to the customer, they then trash you to however will listen.
 

Kevin W.

Registered User
NAWCC Member
Apr 11, 2002
22,683
407
83
63
Nepean, Ontario, Canada
Country
Region
I work for free as well. In the Chapter i am in. Its a volunteer job, but its enjoyable.
 

shutterbug

Moderator
NAWCC Member
Oct 19, 2005
44,254
1,346
113
North Carolina
Country
Region
I don't understand how threads get as convoluted as this one has. Sylvester asked
Hi what's the best way to tighten a loose bushing without taking the movement apart.
and our best advise is "you can't!"
If someone asks how to do something without taking the movement apart, the least we can do is try to help him. If the band-aid fails nothing is really lost.
And why would anyone imply that since I recommend a way that will work for the inquirer, that must be the way I do things in my shop?
Good grief. No good deed ever goes unpunished.
Also, I would remind one that personal attacks are still against the rules. If it had been against anyone else, I would have removed at least one of the comments in this thread.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Kevin W.

bangster

Moderator
NAWCC Member
Jan 1, 2005
19,873
443
83
utah
Country
Region
The OP's example was (to the customers point of view) a very simple fix: put the bush back in place. Solution1: Stick it back in, use LocTite, charge little or nothing. Solution 2: Tell him to do it right you'll have to take the clock apart, and while the clock is apart it would be foolish not to carry out the complete service, and charge for that, and tell the customer so. If he opts for solution 1, you have a clear conscience. If he opts for solution 2, you have a clear conscience.

I don't recall ever getting in a repair requiring disassembly, that I didn't turn into a complete service. And there's never been a case where full service wasn't called for. If the customer rejects the disassembly and service my conscience is clear: I don't take the job.
 

Bruce Alexander

Registered User
NAWCC Brass Member
Feb 22, 2010
7,147
702
113
Country
Region
and while the clock is apart it would be foolish not to carry out the complete service, and charge for that,
Not necessarily bangster. I think it really depends on what you find once the movement is apart.
There are a lot of unknowns in this situation and Sylvester has evidently left the building. :emoji_footprints:

Not sure that I blame him much. He got the answer he was looking for in post #4.
 

shutterbug

Moderator
NAWCC Member
Oct 19, 2005
44,254
1,346
113
North Carolina
Country
Region
I don't see where Sylvester claimed to be a professional repairman. If he were, he wouldn't have needed to ask the question. I think we got him a functional solution, and the clock is probably running as we speak.
 

R&A

Registered User
Oct 21, 2008
4,203
107
63
Country
I don't understand how threads get as convoluted as this one has. Sylvester asked

and our best advise is "you can't!"
If someone asks how to do something without taking the movement apart, the least we can do is try to help him. If the band-aid fails nothing is really lost.
And why would anyone imply that since I recommend a way that will work for the inquirer, that must be the way I do things in my shop?
Good grief. No good deed ever goes unpunished.
Also, I would remind one that personal attacks are still against the rules. If it had been against anyone else, I would have removed at least one of the comments in this thread.
If you read the thread or post or what ever you would like to call it. It was a question not an attack. I instruct people as to how I do things.
You said in the post= Personally I would not feel bad about providing that fix, while explaining what was done and why.
So I ask is this how you fix clocks in your shop.
This is not an attack IT"S A Question
Lets move on Can't we all just get along
 

shutterbug

Moderator
NAWCC Member
Oct 19, 2005
44,254
1,346
113
North Carolina
Country
Region
It was a rhetorical question with a cynical undertone, followed by a statement of shocked disbelief. But yes, lets move on and try to get along.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kevin W.

R&A

Registered User
Oct 21, 2008
4,203
107
63
Country
It was a rhetorical question with a cynical undertone, followed by a statement of shocked disbelief. But yes, lets move on and try to get along.
That sounds like a question answered with an over exasperated sense of humor LOL
 

Bruce Alexander

Registered User
NAWCC Brass Member
Feb 22, 2010
7,147
702
113
Country
Region
It seems to me that without more details on the case in question, the entire Thread is a rhetorical question.

SB, we know that you're a professional offering high standards to an area "served" by a mobile Dunk-N-Swish shop...so I don't think that anyone familiar with your many posts will seriously question the ethics or practices of your shop. Speaking for myself, I don't.

Some folks may equate the Loctite-N-Hope to Dunk-N-Swish. Short-cuts should not be taught nor encouraged to folks who are just learning and may not know any better. Generally I tend to agree with that sentiment.

The OP's question has been thoroughly answered with numerous pros and cons. Hopefully he'll come back to let us know how this Thread ends

Regards
 

R&A

Registered User
Oct 21, 2008
4,203
107
63
Country
It seems to me that without more details on the case in question, the entire Thread is a rhetorical question.

SB, we know that you're a professional offering high standards to an area "served" by a mobile Dunk-N-Swish shop...so I don't think that anyone familiar with your many posts will seriously question the ethics or practices of your shop. Speaking for myself, I don't.

Some folks may equate the Loctite-N-Hope to Dunk-N-Swish. Short-cuts should not be taught nor encouraged to folks who are just learning and may not know any better. Generally I tend to agree with that sentiment.

The OP's question has been thoroughly answered with numerous pros and cons. Hopefully he'll come back to let us know how this Thread ends

Regards
Some folks may equate the Loctite-N-Hope to Dunk-N-Swish. Short-cuts should not be taught nor encouraged to folks who are just learning and may not know any better. Generally I tend to agree with that sentiment. Ya gotta love this guy Well said To some this just does not sink in at all.
 

Bruce Alexander

Registered User
NAWCC Brass Member
Feb 22, 2010
7,147
702
113
Country
Region
Thanks for the kind remark R&A. I can easily think of a few folks who would disagree with you, but disagreeing is part of what we do here. ;)
 
Our 2021 National Meeting in Hampton Roads Virginia
Topic related ad experiment
Know Your NAWCC Forums Rules!
RULES & GUIDELINES

Find member

Forum statistics

Threads
160,716
Messages
1,394,675
Members
82,814
Latest member
mugs
Encyclopedia Pages
1,099
Total wiki contributions
2,778
Last edit
Beat Setting 101 by Tom McIntyre