Looking to Upgrade my Spring Winder

Discussion in 'Clock Repair' started by 124Spider, Jul 19, 2019.

  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  1. 124Spider

    124Spider Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Hi,

    I have had a Joe Collins spring winder for some years, and am looking perhaps for something a little more like an Ollie Baker spring winder.

    Specifically, I like the ratcheting winding handle, and I like the ability to use a chuck instead of the drill-style holder.

    I note that Timesavers advertises one, but I don't know if it is what I want.

    I'm looking for suggestions. I only work on my own clocks; I'm a rank amateur.

    Thanks.

    Mark
     
  2. tracerjack

    tracerjack Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Jun 6, 2016
    1,068
    112
    63
    Female
    Lodi, CA
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    From the drawing, that's the one I have. Been very happy with it. Like you, I only do my own clocks.
     
  3. glenhead

    glenhead Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Nov 15, 2009
    1,121
    163
    63
    Telecom Engineer
    Williamson County, Texas
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    I went through the same sequence. Made a Joe Collins and used it for about seven years. As you've no doubt seen there are some barrels it struggles with. There were also two times where the crank slipped out of my hand and smacked the bejeebers out of my thumb one time and back of my hand the other.

    I finally broke down and bought an OIlie Baker a bit over a year ago. Wow, what a difference! If you can spare the money I feel that it's a very smart investment.

    Be aware that there is, from my understanding, almost always a bit of a wait for an Ollie Baker. They're not mass produced, so be prepared to wait while they make one. It's entirely possible that I just ordered at the wrong time, but I'm pretty sure they said it usually takes a couple or three weeks.

    Hope this helps.

    Glen
     
    124Spider likes this.
  4. 124Spider

    124Spider Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Thanks, Glen!

    I find lots of places claiming to sell Ollie Baker winders, but I don't know how to be sure I'm getting a real one. Do you have a reliable link?

    Mark
     
  5. TooManyClocks

    TooManyClocks Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Feb 6, 2019
    105
    32
    28
    Male
    Country Flag:
    Like you, I only work on my own clocks. I have a Webster winder. The first time I ever used it, the mainspring i was winding blew up on me...the mainspring went one way and the mainwheel/arbor went somewhere else! Thought I had everything tight...so much for assuming :whistle: I also learned afterward how to straighten my first mainwheel arbor:(

    It taught me quickly to pay even closer attention, and I've had no further problems since. The whole thing feels unsteady, even though it's mounted tight as can be. The way the loop end springs attach to the sliding piece of steel wire to hold it into position while I'm winding the spring gives me the heebie-jeebies. It wants to move everywhere, and I wish I had either a bigger hand with more fingers, or at least three hands.

    Maybe it's me that's the problem, and it probably is, but I sort of wish money hadn't been any concern so I could have bought an ollie Baker type. May not have been any better, but I always figured they were. At least if I'd got one i could tell myself all the problems i might have were my fault!:D

    Happily I was smart enough to not buy one of those cheap $10 winders...I bought this used Webster online instead. Figured it would be cheaper than a doctor visit complete with stitches.

    So if you do go for one, I'd be curious to know if you end up liking it better than what you have

    John
     
  6. mauleg

    mauleg Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Dec 26, 2012
    848
    138
    43
    Country Flag:
    I too, have a Webster spring winder and have used it with good results on even the heaviest springs; the loop end attachment on mine, however, is substantial and stable. Perhaps a newer model?

    The only weakness I see with the Webster is the chuck; it needs to be tightened with pliers every time or it will slip. Of course, heavy gloves and eye protection are a must, as with every spring winder.
     
  7. Willie X

    Willie X Registered User

    Feb 9, 2008
    12,774
    983
    113
    The Webster is good. Be sure to get the tailstock. You can add the tailstock to an older machine by making a new lower bar about 4" longer than the original. Willie X
     
  8. TooManyClocks

    TooManyClocks Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Feb 6, 2019
    105
    32
    28
    Male
    Country Flag:
    Im sure mine is an older model. Timesavers sells some upgrade pieces for older models that I bought, which helps a lot compared to what it was, but I still don't like how that formed wire that holds the loop end of the mainspring wants to slide out of position while I'm using the same hand to keep the mainspring coils where they belong, while using my other hand on the crank to wind it. Once I get to a certain point in the winding process, everything settles down for the most part, but I still could use more fingers.

    And I do use a good grade of heavy gloves that still allows good dexterity, as well as eye protection. Maybe mine's older than I realized:?|

    John
     
  9. TooManyClocks

    TooManyClocks Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Feb 6, 2019
    105
    32
    28
    Male
    Country Flag:
    I did get the upgrade tailstock, etc from timesavers which also has that longer bar and a heavier steel formed wire to hold the end of the mainspring that you mentioned. They certainly make it easier and safer...if I could just get the wire holding the end if the mainspring to stay where I put it. Maybe I should try using hose clamps or something similar next time. I just figured that's how the beast was. Could be the operator, too:D

    John
     
  10. TooManyClocks

    TooManyClocks Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Feb 6, 2019
    105
    32
    28
    Male
    Country Flag:
    And sorry, 124spider, I really didn't mean to hijack this thread! Maybe others will reply to your original question

    John
     
  11. Willie X

    Willie X Registered User

    Feb 9, 2008
    12,774
    983
    113
    John,
    I haven't had any trouble with that hook. It works well for me. The winder I have has been used for about 18 years full time commercial and 12 years part time. So, it's about 30 years old. I have worn out and damaged a few of the sleeves but they are easy to duplicate or repair.
    WIllie X
     
  12. TooManyClocks

    TooManyClocks Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Feb 6, 2019
    105
    32
    28
    Male
    Country Flag:
    Assuming its not the fault of the operator (for the moment) i’ll send a photo later tonight or tomorrow so you can see if i set something up wrong. Quite possible, as i work in a vacuum here...by that i mean trial and error until i figure something out. The spring winder is outside in my very cramped small workshop that i use for everything except clock repair. I always have to move stuff away so i can even get at it. That part isn’t a problem, because i can do several in a month, and then go some months and do none at all. When i have a chance, by tomorrow morning here, I’ll take a photo of it. It’s the kind that clamps to a vise, and i have a big one it attaches to. It cant go anywhere unless i want it to.

    John
     
  13. kinsler33

    kinsler33 Registered User

    Aug 17, 2014
    3,275
    360
    83
    Male
    Science teacher, writer
    Lancaster, Ohio, USA
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    I've had a difficult relationship with my Webster spring winder over the years. Years ago I had to tighten that crummy clutch so much that the leaves inside just broke off, so I took Webster on a field trip to visit Mr Grinding Wheel, where I ground off the remains of the chuck and ground sort-of square, 3/8" on a side, out of what was left of the chuck. This accommodated a 7/16" deep socket of Chinese manufacture reasonably well. That's the size of the hex parts of let-down tool chucks, though to get them to fit in the socket wrench I had to drill the throat of the socket out to (I think) 3/8". So this worked, if clumsily, for the long socket has to have the chuck in it, and you've got te winding arbor hanging on that. But everything turns reliably.

    I've added some set screws to hold the chuck in the socket wrench and the winding arbor in the chuck, but it's clearly not great. And now the ratchet is reluctant to catch, likely a lubrication problem. So I think I'm gonna use my feeble machining skills to modify this into a reasonable tool: I'll let down the hardening on the shaft so I can machine proper flats thereupon, and see what I can do to replace those less-than-reliable roll pins that hold the thing together.

    I'd advise you to build your own mainspring winder, but I haven't read any of the plans closely enough to evaluate them.

    M Kinsler
     
  14. TooManyClocks

    TooManyClocks Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Feb 6, 2019
    105
    32
    28
    Male
    Country Flag:
    #14 TooManyClocks, Jul 20, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2019
    Happily i haven't had a particular problem with the jaws holding; a good hard turn by hand is generally enough on mine. I think i’ve only had to resort to using pliers to help tighten the jaws onto an arbor just a couple of times. The thing didn’t seem to show much wear when i bought it, and Timesavers price on the upgrade parts was quite reasonable although i don’t remember just what it was.

    It appears there is only one person in this discussion having a problem with the coiled wire holding onto a loop end mainspring—me—something tells me the solution has to be adjusting the winder operator—again, me!:D

    When i started this hobby, i’d heard references to making my own spring winder, but couldn't source the plans at that time as they weren’t yet publicly available, so i bought the Webster. The plans are posted on this site now, but if i can sort out getting that formed spring to stay put I think what i have will work reasonably well—as long as the jaws don’t fall apart!, If not, then maybe it would be time to look at building my own.

    Willie’s has served him well for a lot of years, so hopefully mine can also.

    I do have an incentive to getting it working right, as my next project is a Korean 30 day clock that my brother picked up for $5 at a yard sale. He brought it home, wouldn’t stay running, A lot of wear on the time train. I haven’t messed with a 30 day mainspring yet, and would prefer to sort out the problem, now that this discussion has shown me there is one, before i get started on it:)

    Anyway, I’ll post pictures tomorrow. Hopefully that will show what’s wrong.

    Question for the moderator: it seems this thread wandered away from the original posted question at the top. Should it be moved to another thread? 124Spider asked for opinions at the beginning. I don’t know whether they got adequately addressed.

    John
     
  15. David S

    David S Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Dec 18, 2011
    7,195
    245
    63
    Male
    Professional Engineer - Retired
    Brockville, On Canada
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    To answer Mark's original question with the Colin's winder. I had used mine for years but didn't like the fact that it needed a third hand sometimes to operate the brake.
    So I added a bidirectional ratchet. Awesome now and it has a free wheeling position so you can wind and unwind the spring when lubing.
    close up with winding handle.jpg

    David
     
    bangster likes this.
  16. glenhead

    glenhead Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Nov 15, 2009
    1,121
    163
    63
    Telecom Engineer
    Williamson County, Texas
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Sorry, I forgot to go back and put in the phrase "from Timesavers" in my response. Sigh. :) They're a great company to work with.

    Ollie Baker Style Spring Winder

    Glen
     
  17. Willie X

    Willie X Registered User

    Feb 9, 2008
    12,774
    983
    113
    I think the word "style" signifies something about the winder not being the original design ... something about the handle too? If you do a search, there is a lot of information and I think the differences will become clear. Usually more good things are said about the Olie Baker winder than any other. Personally, I dont like the idea of using letdown tools instead of a chuck
    But the Webster chuck isn't anything to write home about either. :) Willie X
     
  18. R. Croswell

    R. Croswell Registered User

    Apr 4, 2006
    10,209
    821
    113
    Male
    Trappe, Md.
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Mark, note that the winder sold by Timesavers is an Ollie Baker style winder. I believe the originals are no longer being produced. There is no perfect winder and a ratchet feature is desirable but I prefer a winder that clamps spring barrels securely leaving me a free hand. The Joe Collins is whatever one makes it and some that I've seen (not used) look a little flimsy for really heavy springs and as you probably know it has trouble with certain styles of barreled springs. Still, I would look closely at what's available and ask is it really any better than what you already have.

    I like to make things so I doubt that I will ever buy a commercial spring winder. Here are a few pictures of "The Beast" that I made several decades ago. I am not suggesting that anyone build one like this. I've modified it numerous times over the years and if I were planning to make one there are things I would likely do differently. That said, it has served me well. It holds barrels securely, and the winding arbor accepts a large chuck and a small chuck, and various specific fixed size "keys". The barrel clamp is removed for open springs and the end support put in its place. I regret that it doesn't have a ratchet but there is a "bolt" that can be pushed out to lock the crank and a free swinging plate that drops behind the "bolt head" locking the stop in place. Its big, sturdy (the wood is oak), ugly, and a little slow to setup, but it works. I use the Ollie Baker sleeve set and some homemade additions. One of the pictures shows some of the "accessories". I've never encountered a spring I couldn't manage or adapt the beast to manage. Again, I present this only to inspire thought by anyone considering building a winder.

    RC

    winder-1.jpg winder-2.jpg winder-3.jpg
     
  19. shutterbug

    shutterbug Moderator
    NAWCC Member

    Oct 19, 2005
    43,154
    1,182
    113
    Male
    Self employed interpreter/clock repairer
    North Carolina
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Here's a pic of the Webster and the attachments it should have. As you can see, the hooks for the open end and the barreled springs are both quite substantial.

    IMG_4923.JPG
     
  20. Willie X

    Willie X Registered User

    Feb 9, 2008
    12,774
    983
    113
    John et all,
    This photo might help you to decide what is wrong with your Webster hook. The
    2 3/16" measurement is from the inside of the eye to the inside of the hook and the hook runs 1/2" below center of the arbor. I consider this tailstock to be a must on any larger than average springs, or springs with long arbors, like on many American clocks. Willie X

    20190720_123009.jpg
     
  21. lpbp

    lpbp Registered User
    NAWCC Star Fellow NAWCC Life Member NAWCC Member

    Aug 25, 2000
    2,897
    37
    48
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    I have owned two different winders and had poor results, also used a Webster, I bought an Ollie Baker type, what a difference, wished I had started there.
     
  22. TooManyClocks

    TooManyClocks Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Feb 6, 2019
    105
    32
    28
    Male
    Country Flag:
    #22 TooManyClocks, Jul 20, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2019
    Not sure the best way to approach what i have to freely admit, which i began to strongly suspect last night—it was totally the fault of the operator—me!...it IS possible, however unwise, to install the loop end hook backwards and use it that way for about two years with no mishaps except at the beginning, all the while being blissfullly unaware of the proper way to use it.

    I had tried it the the apparently correct way at one point, but couldn’t get it to work at the time. Been too long to remember the circumstances. Anyway, i have some of the original paperwork dated 1992. What is there does show the hook turned opposite how i was using it all this time!

    MORAL=when all else fails, read instructions—again!:banghead:

    Usually that’s how i figure things out, and never once can i remember it being quick or easy...

    The more positive part of this is why i took the hobby up in the first place. I’m a mostly retired truck driver. I retired early to take care of my now 95 year old Dad, who lives with us now. I’m his full time caregiver, and need a hobby to give me an outlet. I guess i could have picked a cheaper one! I started with mantle clocks, wall clocks that kept getting bigger, then a couple of Seth Thomas #2s, a large vienna regulator, and on it goes. My first calendar clock i got working was a Ithaca calendar clock that had the calendar linkage messed up when i got it. Works great now after an overhaul and a linkage adjustment, which i at one point wondered if i would ever get working. Invariably, google searching on this message board has aways answered my questions as they came up. Many of you here have answered my questions since i started and never knew it!

    Here’s a real head-banger i had to deal with. Try having the a vienna regulator run too fast, and speed up 20 minutes or so as I moved the pendulum to the bottom. I knew i wasn’t imagining it, just observing it. I thought i’d hit a total dead end, then i found this thread
    longer pendulum makes it run faster?!?

    If Bruce reads this, it wasn’t your imagination. It happened to me too! I filled the inside with about 2/3 pound of BBs as suggested in that thread. It worked! The clock keeps great time now. Fascinating thread, but a lot of it was over my head...something to do with inertia vs gravity: solution=BBs!

    I’m saying all this as a thank you to everyone who posts normal, or frustrating, or crazy questions here, and everyone who helps figure out the problems. I can’t thank you enough!:)

    John
    Ignore the first photo. It’s a duplicate i’m not sure how to remove.
    Second photo: how to use my winder the wrong way
    Third photo: how to use it the right way:rolleyes:
    Fourth photo: the vienna regulator that this message board helped me with. Missing a headpiece, but this one looks great on my wall without it. About 42 inches tall. Now back to regular programming!

    55E6EFE4-0FC0-4FA3-9292-2CE5A5F4B260.jpeg 8F28E070-2494-4381-B6E4-E338D1107E2B.jpeg 0AD1E286-6AA0-4737-AC03-1FC481B4B7CD.jpeg 5EAD0DC3-FF93-44E8-AB0A-054CDF45CD79.jpeg
     
  23. TooManyClocks

    TooManyClocks Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Feb 6, 2019
    105
    32
    28
    Male
    Country Flag:
  24. TooManyClocks

    TooManyClocks Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Feb 6, 2019
    105
    32
    28
    Male
    Country Flag:
    And thank you Willie, for all your help!

    John
     
  25. Uhralt

    Uhralt Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Sep 4, 2008
    4,804
    559
    113
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    I've been using mine as you show it in your second picture. I have checked the instructions and mine are silent about the direction in which the hook should go. Never had a problem. What exactlu was your problem?

    Uhralt
     
  26. TooManyClocks

    TooManyClocks Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Feb 6, 2019
    105
    32
    28
    Male
    Country Flag:
    Might be easiest to copy here what wrote earlier in post #8:

    “Im sure mine is an older model. Timesavers sells some upgrade pieces for older models that I bought, which helps a lot compared to what it was, but I still don't like how that formed wire that holds the loop end of the mainspring wants to slide out of position while I'm using the same hand to keep the mainspring coils where they belong, while using my other hand on the crank to wind it. Once I get to a certain point in the winding process, everything settles down for the most part, but I still could use more fingers”

    After flipping it around and trying it, it worked great!

    Sorry for my longwinded earlier post. I could never figure out a way to thank everyone for their help over the years, and just figured this was a good a way as i could find:)

    See bottom right of photo for the wire orientation. The only instructions i had was for winding barrels, but it does show how the loop end wire is pointing.

    John

    B45B649E-95A7-4696-888C-458BC9A677CB.jpeg
     
  27. Willie X

    Willie X Registered User

    Feb 9, 2008
    12,774
    983
    113
    I wouldn't think it would make any difference, which way the open end points. Now, if the end of the "L" shaped hook has been bent outward (from parallel) a bit, I can see how that would spell trouble. :) Willie X
     
  28. TooManyClocks

    TooManyClocks Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Feb 6, 2019
    105
    32
    28
    Male
    Country Flag:
    Not sure why, either. The coils of the mainspring would push against the base of the formed wire where the wire attaches to the long steel rod as i wound it up, pushing it sideways until the coils were tight enough to not contact the base of the wire. From that point it has been a lot easier to control. Turned the wire around this time, and it worked a lot better. I didn’t have to use more fingers than i have to keep everything under control this time!

    My upgrade kit included a heavier wire which is pretty straight. The old one from when i first started is bent, probably from the blowup i experienced on my first winding session. I’ll be out there later today and take another look at the wire, and if it is bent, i’ll let you know. Shouldn’t be, because if it was, it would give me even more trouble than i’ve been experiencing.

    John
     
  29. Willie X

    Willie X Registered User

    Feb 9, 2008
    12,774
    983
    113
    Be sure to push the spring coils hard against the arbor. No spaces between the could. If you don't do that, the spring will do this. :) Willie X
    20190216_144956.jpg
     
  30. brutusamiga

    brutusamiga Registered User

    Sep 13, 2011
    162
    0
    16
    Teacher
    Cape Town, South Africa
    Country Flag:
    I've a Olie Baker, Webster and Keystone. The Keystone is miles ahead of the others. It's sturdy and can easily handle large fusee and time recorder springs. I no longer use the other two winders. The Keystone is expensive but worth every penny.
     
  31. PaPa_Clock

    PaPa_Clock Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Sep 22, 2014
    133
    7
    18
    Male
    Retired
    Michigan
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    I have to vote for the Keystone. It works very well, has a barrel clamp, and a rod on the bottom that is pulled out to stop and hold the handle. Better than a ratchet because it has no click to fail.
     
  32. shutterbug

    shutterbug Moderator
    NAWCC Member

    Oct 19, 2005
    43,154
    1,182
    113
    Male
    Self employed interpreter/clock repairer
    North Carolina
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    The hook for open end springs on the Webster is designed with an odd bend for a reason. When inserted properly, the hook will fully engage the spring and the base will hold the spring in location.
    So in too many's pic above, the spring should be on the other side of the base.
     
  33. sharukh

    sharukh Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Oct 10, 2011
    353
    14
    18
    Doctor
    Mumbai, India
    Country Flag:
    FWIW, I have had an Ollie Baker that I picked up from Uncle Larry many years ago. Before that I had a steel contraption that was a pain to set up and use, probably because it was my first attempt at making one.

    The Ollie Baker works very well for my needs.

    One thing you need to keep in mind is that the screw holding the ratchet has a propensity to come loose. The first time that happened, I had wound up the spring just a few turns and I averted a probable mishap.

    I've seen photos online of a barrel holder accessory for it but never for sale. Maybe I'll fabricate it one day myself.

    As always, heavy leather gloves, eye protection and paying attention are mandatory.

    Sharukh
     
  34. TooManyClocks

    TooManyClocks Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Feb 6, 2019
    105
    32
    28
    Male
    Country Flag:
    #34 TooManyClocks, Jul 22, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2019
    I haven’t had that happen (yet) but i have had a few close calls! I’m not sure i understand exactly what you’re referring to. Push the spring coils against the arbor while winding? I typically push against the side of the spring to keep it in line as i wind to keep it from doing what your photo shows. I ask because i’m never opposed to learning a better way.

    I think the problem with the wire moving around has been sorted out, but in the future, if i still have trouble, my next step might be buying some 3/8 round locking collars to keep that wire where i want it.

    Something like this should lock it down if needed https://www.amazon.com/Solid-Steel-Plated-Shaft-Collars/dp/B0197I4SEY/ref=sr_1_5?crid=1LA7LU5JN7DR9&keywords=3/8+locking+collar&qid=1563778373&s=gateway&sprefix=3/8+locking+coll,aps,195&sr=8-5

    John

    John
     
  35. TooManyClocks

    TooManyClocks Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Feb 6, 2019
    105
    32
    28
    Male
    Country Flag:
    It only took me 2 years or so to figure it out with the help on this board that finally got me thinking the problem was with me, not the winder...

    A time or two I mentioned to my wife (of 33 years) that I think I’m a hopeless case. She didn’t even hesitate—she laughed and heartily agreed!:)

    Who am I to argue?

    John
     
  36. TooManyClocks

    TooManyClocks Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Feb 6, 2019
    105
    32
    28
    Male
    Country Flag:
    Willie,
    I just looked at your photo again. Are you referring to barrel type mainsprings? I haven’t done any of those yet, but i have three clocks with barrel mainsprings that are getting close to the top of the repair line. I think what you’re saying makes sense in that type of arrangement. If so, i’ll keep that strongly in my mind as i work on those

    John
     
  37. Willie X

    Willie X Registered User

    Feb 9, 2008
    12,774
    983
    113
    All springs. Keep a strong pressure against the spring about an inch above the winder hook. That can be at the front or back depending on which way you're winding. IOWs, don't allow the spring to have spaces between the coils except on the opposite side from where you are applying pressure. This helps to keep the spring in a stable condition. Allowing an open coil, with spaces all around, is where the trouble starts. Willie X
     
  38. TooManyClocks

    TooManyClocks Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Feb 6, 2019
    105
    32
    28
    Male
    Country Flag:

    Thanks, I’ll do that. I’m sure it will help with my original problem. When i started winding springs, the instructions that came with it were only available for barrel springs. I learned what i know via a youtube video or two.

    John
     
  39. Harry Hopkins

    Harry Hopkins Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Nov 16, 2011
    546
    38
    28
    Retired Instrument Technician
    Mason, IL
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Here is a picture of my modified Webster... It is about 25 or 30 years old and I have slowly improved it over time. I like it but have very little experience with other winders. As it aged I started having trouble with the chuck holding smaller arbors and a few times it 'let go' on me so I decided to remove the original chuck by knocking out the pin and pinning a 7/16" deep well socket in it's place that accepts let down keys that I cut in half. Mine did not come with the support for the outboard end of the arbor so I have added that.. I also added knobs to all the set screws to make adjustment easier (see picture). Very recently I bought both the new style Webster hooks with the bushing so they fit better on the lower rod (for loop end and hole end springs) and I think that was an improvement also.

    I am curious Willie as to why you don't care for let down keys used in a winder?
    webster.jpg
     
  40. Willie X

    Willie X Registered User

    Feb 9, 2008
    12,774
    983
    113
    #40 Willie X, Jul 22, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2019
    I think I would get used to it but I like the idea of having the square clamped in tight and I don't have to look for the best fit. I might get those improved hooks. I paid close attention to the wire hooks today, as I wound a pair of loop end springs. They are mighty floppy, and the right angle one is bent way inward. Never noticed that until today.
    Willie X
     
  41. TooManyClocks

    TooManyClocks Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Feb 6, 2019
    105
    32
    28
    Male
    Country Flag:
    #41 TooManyClocks, Jul 23, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2019
    The upgraded hooks are definitely an improvement; the ones i got can still flop around somewhat but are nowhere near as floppy as the old ones without the round steel insert. Certainly helped my clumsiness be not so clumsy:)

    I got mine at Timesavers, their part no. 30481

    John

    129ADF05-6179-466E-B081-92570552DFE4.jpeg
     
  42. TooManyClocks

    TooManyClocks Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Feb 6, 2019
    105
    32
    28
    Male
    Country Flag:
    I planned to replace the knobs on that tailstock piece when mine showed up in the first place with those tiny knobs. Now after seeing your picture, i’m going to have to find me some.

    Hopefully the chuck jaws on mine stay working forever. If not, i’ve seen some good ways to deal with it here. I like how you did it...it seems simple enough for me!

    John
     
  43. Uhralt

    Uhralt Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Sep 4, 2008
    4,804
    559
    113
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Where did you find those knobs and which thread size will fit? Replacing the original ones seems to be a good idea.

    Uhralt
     
  44. Harry Hopkins

    Harry Hopkins Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Nov 16, 2011
    546
    38
    28
    Retired Instrument Technician
    Mason, IL
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    I believe these are what I ordered but I don't remember having to order 10 in a pack. Amazon has quite a selection if you search for "four arm knobs". My knobs take a 1/4-20 thread so I made my own threaded rods with 1/4-20 on one end and whatever thread the winder took on the other end. It seems like the 3 knobs I replaced all used a different thread.
     
  45. shutterbug

    shutterbug Moderator
    NAWCC Member

    Oct 19, 2005
    43,154
    1,182
    113
    Male
    Self employed interpreter/clock repairer
    North Carolina
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    I have that end piece, but rarely use it. I find it a bit clumsy, but perhaps from lack of practice ;)
     
  46. Uhralt

    Uhralt Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Sep 4, 2008
    4,804
    559
    113
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Thank you!

    Uhralt
     
  47. Willie X

    Willie X Registered User

    Feb 9, 2008
    12,774
    983
    113
    That "end piece" is poorly designed.

    For penneys, they could have made the anodized aluminum body 1/2" longer. This would have allowed the clamping lead screw to be placed below the round bar. This would have doubled the clamping force and moved the knob lower and more out of the way by about 1". Win, win, with no extra machine work or labor cost, maybe 20 cents extra for the aluminum stock!
    Go figure, Willie X
     
  48. TooManyClocks

    TooManyClocks Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Feb 6, 2019
    105
    32
    28
    Male
    Country Flag:
    Thanks for the info! I noticed online that my local Lowe’s carries an assortment of similar knobs that i can buy one a time instead of a multipack. but they don’t say on their website what size they are, except for one that is 14-20 thread.

    I’ve been wanting/needing to buy a thread gauge anyway, so I’ll take my samples with the small knobs from my winder along with me and find out what thread sizes they are, and if i can get away with finding the right thread size knobs i wont have to do any adapting to fit to my winder.

    Regardless after i buy the gauge they’re supposed to have in stock, i’ll post what the actual thread sizes are for those who want to order online. This assumes the thread sizes installed originally never changed over time from year to year...

    That will be later today. It’s 92 degrees outside and i’l rather wait till it cools off:)

    John
     
  49. TooManyClocks

    TooManyClocks Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Feb 6, 2019
    105
    32
    28
    Male
    Country Flag:

    I totally agree. It is adequate for the purpose, but that’s about it. When my tailstock/end piece arrived i was surprised by how much better it could have been. If the steel bar and body had a keyway machined in them as well, that would really have helped the overall stability.

    The more positive side is, it does meet my needs for a part-time occasional winder and yours as well used full time for many years. Getting what i paid for, but it does get the job done—so why am i complaining?:D

    John
     
  50. Willie X

    Willie X Registered User

    Feb 9, 2008
    12,774
    983
    113
    Maybe that's their business model?

    Make something that will do and then sell 'improved' parts to make it better. I guess they can continue this ploy by making "improved - improved" parts. Ha

    WIllie X
     

Share This Page