Looking for Schatz 400 day clock parts

Discussion in '400-Day & Atmos' started by trainman115, Jan 24, 2019.

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  1. trainman115

    trainman115 Registered User

    Apr 18, 2013
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    Hi I am looking for theses Schatz 400 day clock parts the gear and the part that holds this little handle or arm it goes to the brass gear if anyone has theses two parts for sale Please email me at trainman@pa.metrocast.net I can sure use them to get it up and running Thanks

    001.JPG
     
  2. etmb61

    etmb61 Registered User
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    Oct 25, 2010
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    Hi,

    It would be helpful to know the number in the center of the trade mark stamp on the back plate of the movement.

    Eric
     
  3. trainman115

    trainman115 Registered User

    Apr 18, 2013
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  4. trainman115

    trainman115 Registered User

    Apr 18, 2013
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    Hi sorry its a #49
     
  5. MartinM

    MartinM Registered User

    Jun 24, 2011
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    The parts you are picturing are:
    • The escape wheel (Which seems to be usable from the angle pictured)
    • A generic steel taper pin (which shouldn't hava a place on a Schatz 49)
    It could be a broken anchor pin, I suppose​
    • Two brass screws that look like those used to hold the movement plates together.

    I'm afraid we'll need more to go on to be helpful.
    How about giving us pictures of everything you have and we can better assess the situation.
     
  6. trainman115

    trainman115 Registered User

    Apr 18, 2013
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    Thanks the escape wheel in my clock has one of the pins that go into the brass plate broke off and the pin I am talking about goes up to the suspension spring it broke off the silver part that turns the gear the gear in my first photo has teeth broken off and I just used it to show what I am looking for hope this helps and Thanks for all the help and reply s

    002.JPG 003.JPG 004.JPG 005.JPG
     
  7. MartinM

    MartinM Registered User

    Jun 24, 2011
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    Okay... So, you need either a new escape wheel or to have someone repair the broken pivot. The local clock/watch guy can do that for a small fee. The part with the pin broken off is called the anchor. These clocks generally have a pin long enough that the broken stub can be drilled out and the pin reinserted and either pressed in or held in with epoxy or another glue if the hole gets hogged out too much. I'll assume the screws are extras, like the example escape wheel you included.
    I have parts, but they are buried somewhere in a storage unit, at the moment. If nobody else can help you out with an anchor and escape wheel, try Chris Nimon at thehorolovarcompany.com
     
  8. trainman115

    trainman115 Registered User

    Apr 18, 2013
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    OK Thank you I will try
     
  9. trainman115

    trainman115 Registered User

    Apr 18, 2013
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    Hi well I got the parts need for my clock got it up and running,my suspension spring broke at the bottom so I just reattach it making it shorter my clock is running fast now I bought a new pack of springs .004 now here is my question and I will pay if I can get the measurements of how long it has to be and how far it goes into the little blocks on the top and bottom I hate to buy a book to due one clock so thats why I am willing to pay I think by making the spring shorter it will run fat I have the winder all the way down and still runs fast about 2 hours fast in 24 hours at least I hope thats my trouble Thank guys in advance for any help
     
  10. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
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    Nov 24, 2014
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    Can you put the pendulum adjuster back in the center range and recheck the rate of the clock? At the extreme of adjustment and being 2 hours (120 minutes) fast in 24 hours, that's 5 minutes per hour. I don't think the small loss of the bottom of the spring will have created that much of a regulation change. I'm scratching my head, but if you reset the pendulum adjuster, the amount it will be fast might be 7-8 minutes per hour which suggests something else is wrong. What does the pendulum weigh? Should be in the high 12 oz, like 12.7 or 12.8 oz.

    The amount of exposed spring is around 113.5mm.

    Kurt
     
  11. trainman115

    trainman115 Registered User

    Apr 18, 2013
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    Thanks Kurt Humm mine weighs only 10.1 oz wonder if that could be the problem I have enclosed two pictures This is the way I got he clock Thanks again 001.JPG 002.JPG 001.JPG 002.JPG
     
  12. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
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    Nov 24, 2014
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    If I have it right, the back plate is 1014A. I have three other clocks with the same back plate and the pendulums weight 12.5-12.7 oz. So, that's definitely a problem. The Schatz pendulums changed visually over time, but my 3 clocks have a different styled pendulum especially on the rod that runs down the center.

    If you don't have the opportunity to get the proper weight pendulum, and since the clock is running fast, what you need is a thinner spring. Either you have to buy the right spring...would take some experimenting or calculations to figure that out...or you could get some sandpaper and spend some time thinning the spring. It's tedious and you have to be able to accurately measure what the reduction in thickness is. We had a discussion on another thread about a method to hang the suspension unit and pendulum outside the clock. You then start the pendulum rotating like normal and time the oscillations...8 beats should take 60 seconds. If it's faster than 60 seconds, the spring is too thick. You have to keep sanding the spring and every so often rehang the pendulum and retime. You should see it slowly work towards 60 seconds.

    Kurt
     
  13. trainman115

    trainman115 Registered User

    Apr 18, 2013
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    Thanks Kurk may I ask whey you got the 1014A I don't see that on my plate I did change the back plate because the screw with the paint around ti was very lose I have enclosed pictures of the original plate I guess it wasnt meant to be but it was fun fooling with it at least it runs now lol Thanks again for all your help

    004.JPG 003.JPG
     
  14. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
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    The "plate" I'm referring to is the number of the drawing in the Terwilliger repair guide. It's the reference to what a clock back plate looks like, the suspension unit required, the size of the main spring, maybe some assembly notes. I also now see that the original plate had the letters "R R" on it, standing for Remington Rand. The "R R" plates tend to date the clock a little earlier than the ones that have the actual date stamped on them. The original plate would have been repair guide #1279 but nothing about the plate changes the suspension spring, etc. The pendulum weight would still be in the 12.5-12.7 oz range.

    Kurt
     
  15. etmb61

    etmb61 Registered User
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  16. trainman115

    trainman115 Registered User

    Apr 18, 2013
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    Thanks Kurk there is a guy here say its not he right pendulum maybe thats my problem Thanks again for all your help Ed
     
  17. trainman115

    trainman115 Registered User

    Apr 18, 2013
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    Thanks I will look for the right one Ed
     
  18. MartinM

    MartinM Registered User

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    Eric's correct. And, depending on which direction you rotate the dial on top of the pendulum to regulate the speed, it may take one of two different springs. Neither of which is the .004" spring appropriate for a Schatz.
    Just by looks, I'm guessing you have the one that needs a .0038" (Horolovar) spring.
     
  19. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
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    If there's any room under the ball covers, you could consider adding equal amounts of weights. You would need to add about 0.5 oz to each ball.

    Kurt
     
  20. trainman115

    trainman115 Registered User

    Apr 18, 2013
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    Thanks again I will look for a different one I went on ebay looking at the clocks I dont see any difference but I guess there is to be honest I put 4 nuts on the top and weighted it it came out 12.8 oz so far running great and on time I just hope I can get the right pendulum no more of theses yard sale clocks for me you never know if they have been fooled with LOL
     
  21. trainman115

    trainman115 Registered User

    Apr 18, 2013
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    Thanks I can see if there is Ed
     
  22. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
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    One feature to look for would be the rings around the center post as in this picture. This should be the type of pendulum you're looking for.

    Kurt

    SchatzPend.jpg
     
  23. trainman115

    trainman115 Registered User

    Apr 18, 2013
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    Thanks Kurt would this be the one

    pedulium.jpg
     
  24. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
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    I can't tell by the picture, but your pendulum in the picture looks quite small. If the weight is around 12.5 oz, then it would work. The distance between the top of the hook and the point on the bottom is 81mm.

    Kurt
     
  25. trainman115

    trainman115 Registered User

    Apr 18, 2013
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  26. trainman115

    trainman115 Registered User

    Apr 18, 2013
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    Kurt I add the weight to 12.5 oz clock would not stay running the darn spring broke on me so what size spring do you think I should get 38 or the 40 Thanks once again I have the guy checking on the pendulum to make sure its off a 49 model
     
  27. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
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    Martin made the guess that the size is 0.0038". You have a pack of 0.004", right? I say to make up another suspension unit with the 0.004" spring, put the regulation of the pendulum in the middle, and restart the clock. Start making measurements as to how far you are off at 1 hour, 4 hours, 24 hours. From that info, we'd be able to figure out what size you need. The thickness of 0.0001" makes about 4 minutes per hour difference. For the 10 oz pendulum, 0.004" is too thick. So, we know it has to be thinner. I mentioned the thinning of the spring. With a little patience, you could think the 0.004" down a few 0.0001" and maybe get it where you need it to be.

    But if you're going to end up with a true Schatz pendulum, then you might just want to wait for that and use the 0.004".

    Kurt
     
  28. trainman115

    trainman115 Registered User

    Apr 18, 2013
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    Thanks once again Kurt ya I like to get the right pendulum for it so I will wait and let you know how I make out once it gets here Thanks again for all your help Ed
     
  29. MartinM

    MartinM Registered User

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    The quickest way to tell the difference between the Herr and Schatz pendulums during the earlier era where the Schatz didn't have the rings cut into the center column is to look at the regulation knob. On Herr the knurls are all parallel lines and on the Schatz, the knurling is a diamond pattern.
     
  30. trainman115

    trainman115 Registered User

    Apr 18, 2013
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    Thanks Martin mine are like a coin so I guess I got hte Herr one Thanks Ed
     
  31. trainman115

    trainman115 Registered User

    Apr 18, 2013
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    Kurt one more question would you think my clock could be a herr I mean I did buy it at a junk sale could some have changed the face and back plate boy they look the same Ed I would not know how to tell the difference unless the plates are different in screw holes
     
  32. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
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    We've not seen much of the clock, so it's hard to tell. Obviously the back plates you showed are definitely Schatz. You received some spare parts for a Schatz and they fit...I don't have enough experience to know if Schatz parts would fit a Herr clock. One of the easier things to swap in/out are the pendulums so that's probably the situation here.

    It seems relatively clear you have a couple of ways to resolve this:

    - get the right pendulum and use the 0.004" spring
    - get the right spring (thickness TBD) and use your existing pendulum

    If the clock is indeed a Schatz and you want to be sure the parts match (although now you can't say they left the factory that way), then you need to do the first option. But if you're interested in getting one of these clocks to work and enjoying it, the cheaper option is the second one. You're the owner, so you get to decide! ;)

    Kurt
     
  33. trainman115

    trainman115 Registered User

    Apr 18, 2013
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    Thanks Kurt new pendulum on the way
     
  34. trainman115

    trainman115 Registered User

    Apr 18, 2013
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    HI Kurt just wanted let you know that the clock is up and running well Thanks for all your help and to everyone that commented on this post could not have done it without you guys Thanks again Ed
     
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