Looking for info

Discussion in 'European & Other Pocket Watches' started by Matt210118, Apr 23, 2011.

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  1. Matt210118

    Matt210118 Registered User

    Apr 23, 2011
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    #1 Matt210118, Apr 23, 2011
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2011
    Let me intro myself my name is Jon. I have alway had a fascination with pocket watches just could not afford one. I was just given my grandfathers for my 30th birthday and was trying to get some info on it. From what I'm finding on the site I think its a private label railroad with the name of D.P. Paul. on the red arabic numbers seconds on the outside of the main black arabic numbers and white faced dial. Inside the back cover its has 14k fine with the numbers 585 over 1000 inside of what looks like an elongated oval and the numbers 380230 just under it. Under the mechanics cover it has the same markings but just above it has what looks like a flower with 4 D's as the blossoms. On the mechanics of it has D.P. Paul Norfolk.Va adjusted extra 21 jewels 251707 and is stamped swiss. If anyone can help withs some info on it, it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for looking.
     
  2. Matt210118

    Matt210118 Registered User

    Apr 23, 2011
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    Re: Greetings Everyone looking for some info

    heres some pics
     

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  3. Matt210118

    Matt210118 Registered User

    Apr 23, 2011
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    Let me intro myself my name is Jon. I have alway had a fascination with pocket watches just could not afford one. I was just given my grandfathers for my 30th birthday and was trying to get some info on it. From what I'm finding on the site I think its a private label railroad with the name of D.P. Paul. on the red arabic numbers seconds on the outside of the main black arabic numbers and white faced dial. Inside the back cover its has 14k fine with the numbers 585 over 1000 inside of what looks like an elongated oval and the numbers 380230 just under it. Under the mechanics cover it has the same markings but just above it has what looks like a flower with 4 D's as the blossoms. On the mechanics of it has D.P. Paul Norfolk.Va adjusted extra 21 jewels 251707 and is stamped swiss. If anyone can help withs some info on it, it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for looking.
     

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  4. MartyR

    MartyR Registered User
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    Welcome to the board, Matt :)

    The case is a 14 karat solid gold case by Dubois Watch Case Company.

    The movement looks like a good quality Swiss movement. It has nothing to do with railroads, but it does seem to be a private label watch.

    Sharper photos all round would help!
     
  5. Pocket Watch

    Pocket Watch Registered User

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    Re: Greetings Everyone looking for some info

    The bridge layout is distinctly Swiss, so it would have been an imported movement that was cased and marketed here in the United States under the private label of D. P. Paul, a retailer in Norfolk, Virginia, which also (from a quick search) appears to have been a diamond dealer and importer in Norfolk, Virginia.
     
  6. MartyR

    MartyR Registered User
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    Re: Greetings Everyone looking for some info

    This is a duplicate thread of one Matt has also posted in the Eurpean Forum. I suggest further replies should be made in that forum, where this properly belongs.
     
  7. Matt210118

    Matt210118 Registered User

    Apr 23, 2011
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    Re: Greetings Everyone looking for some info

    I was not sure where to post this because i could not find any info on the watch any where. Just know it was stamped with swiss. Sorry i can delete one but I'm still not sure where this post belongs.

    Jon
     
  8. Mikrolisk

    Mikrolisk Registered User

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    The movement should be a LeCoultre.

    Andreas
     
  9. pwrudy

    pwrudy Registered User
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    This may be a Le Coultre raw movement (ebauche), but for me, it looks very much like a Meylan movement because of the flush GJS. This is a quality comparable to Patek Philippe. I would like to see the escapament more closely.
     
  10. Kent

    Kent Registered User
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    To add to the watch case information that MartyR posted, you may learn a little more in the brief Dubois Watch Case Co. Encyclopedia article.

    What is the diameter of the dial (just the dial, not the metal around it)?
     
  11. Larry Treiman

    Larry Treiman Registered User

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    Well, guys, at this moment I am looking at an illustration of an Agassiz 19 P.C.V. model, 16 size open face movement that appears to be the same as Jon's (Matt210118) movement. It is on page 92 of the 1912 A. Wittnauer Co., New York, watch materials catalog, Also on the same page is the Agassiz 19 P.C.S. model 16 size hunting movement.

    Of course it would be helpful if Jon could post a sharp, well-lighted photo of the movement to check some details and a measurement across the dial would confirm that it is 16-size, though a 12-size version has some minor differences.

    Larry Treiman
     
  12. Matt210118

    Matt210118 Registered User

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    Looks like it's a size 12 if I measured it right. It's just over an inch and a half. I'm trying to get a better pic but my camera sucks.
     
  13. Larry Treiman

    Larry Treiman Registered User

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    Well, if it is 12-size, then it would probably be an Agassiz 17 P.C.V. 17-ligne, 12-size O.F. movement according to the 1912 A. Wittnauer materials catalog. A. Wittnauer was the American importer of Longines; Agassiz; Audemars, Piguet & Co; Touchon & Co.; Wittnauer & Co.; and other watches.

    Sharper, better lit photos would help. I don't have a digital camera, so I can't offer any suggestions. Photographically, I'm still back in the 1960s.

    Larry
     
  14. MartyR

    MartyR Registered User
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    I know a guy who can repair bellows, Larry :D
     
  15. Matt210118

    Matt210118 Registered User

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    Hope these pics are better for you guys its the best i can do right now. Thanks for the info so far its been very helpful.
    Jon
     

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  16. Larry Treiman

    Larry Treiman Registered User

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    Well actually, Marty, by the 1960s cameras with bellows were pretty much out of the picture as far as amateur cameras were concerned, though they were still used on (mainly) large-format professional cameras.

    I do have a pre-WWII folding Zeiss Super Ikonta B (among other "folders") that I bought from the late Adin Matthews during the early 1970s. I found it for $10 on his mart table at a local NAWCC chapter meeting among his usual boxes of pre-Keystone Howard movements cased in glass-back skeleton cases for (IIRC) $25 each for "dogs" and "horses" and $30 for "deers". I did use the camera up until the 1980s for B&W shots when traveling; it was easier than shlepping a Rolleiflex.

    Larry
     
  17. Larry Treiman

    Larry Treiman Registered User

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    Hi again, Jon/Matt,

    Please accept my apology for momentarily derailing your thread in order to respond to Marty's little "tease."

    Your latest pictures are much better. I still have trouble getting used to the idea of taking pictures with a telephone. I tried making a 'phone call on a camera, but it doesn't seem to work. Rulers don't usually lie, and your ruler certainly proves that your watch is definitely NOT 16-size, but most likely 12-size, assuming that I'm reading and interpreting it correctly.

    Thus, I'll stick with my observation that it is probably an Agassiz 17 P.C.V., 17-ligne/12-size, open-face movement. That would be the only possibility shown in my 1912 A. Wittnauer parts catalog. I have a 19-ligne/16-size Agassiz 19 P.C.V. open-face 21-jewel "Adjusted Extra" watch (with Agassiz markings) that, except for being a little larger than your watch, is pretty much a "dead ringer" for it. I also have a similar 19-ligne/16-size Agassiz hunting-style, 17-jewel movement, with private label markings for Walter Powell Leading Jeweler Cumberland, Md. Both the 19-ligne/16-size movements have so-called "wolf's teeth" on the winding wheels, while your watch has conventional teeth. Also, both 16-size movements have single-sunk dials while your dial is double sunk.

    Larry Treiman
     

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