Looking for history of this piece

Discussion in 'European & Other Pocket Watches' started by gatordave2000, Jan 2, 2017.

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  1. gatordave2000

    gatordave2000 Registered User

    Jan 2, 2017
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    This gold pocket watch has been in my family for several generations but we don't know the history of it - who made it? how old?, real gold?, etc - any help would be appreciated - we know ZERO about watches etc. Thanks in advance.
     
  2. doug sinclair

    doug sinclair Registered User

    Aug 27, 2000
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    I gather that you have pictures that you intended to upload with your post? Unlikely we can help you without them!
     
  3. gatordave2000

    gatordave2000 Registered User

    Jan 2, 2017
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    geeez very true ----my bad will post now

    - - - Updated - - -

    watch.JPG watch2.JPG watch3.JPG watch4.JPG
     
  4. doug sinclair

    doug sinclair Registered User

    Aug 27, 2000
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    The most important pictures you might have posted regarding your watch, still aren't there! We need good clear, well lit pictures of what is IN the case, as well as good clear pictures of stampings inside the case back. And if there are stampings that are not clear in your pictures, we need you to tell us about them. Disregard any hand scribed watch repairers marks inside the case back.
     
  5. gatordave2000

    gatordave2000 Registered User

    Jan 2, 2017
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  6. doug sinclair

    doug sinclair Registered User

    Aug 27, 2000
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    Unfortunately, I am having difficulty enlarging the stampings inside the case back, in order to read them. I think I see the leopard hallmark which (IIRC) is London. The others, no soap. Also, the MOVEMENT of the watch (the mechanism) is essential. And you have yet to tell us whether there are names of people or places engraved anywhere! If you give us more complete information, we might be able to help.
     
  7. gatordave2000

    gatordave2000 Registered User

    Jan 2, 2017
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    thanks Doug - unfortunately my father maintains possession of the watch - I will see about getting it to take a closer look
     
  8. Dave Coatsworth

    Dave Coatsworth Forums Administrator
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    Feb 11, 2005
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    At this point, I'm reasonably sure this will turn out to not be an American watch. I'm going to move the thread to the European section.
     
  9. LloydB

    LloydB Registered User

    Feb 24, 2006
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    Chester mark, also leopard head...
    Crown over 18 in center.
    No date letter visible on this part.

    At least, that's what I make out.

    And what a nice dial!
     
  10. gmorse

    gmorse Registered User
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    Hi gatordave,

    Yes, it's meant to be Chester, but the mark isn't quite right, there should be a sword between the top two sheaves on the shield, and as far as I can tell that's missing. The leopard's head is confusing, but it would be right for Chester, although in this case it still has a crown, which it lost after 1822. (There's no date letter either, but that isn't too unusual as not all case parts would have had all the marks). These two major anomalies, combined with the fact that it's stem wound, (which it couldn't be if made before 1822), point to the marks being fake English hallmarks in what is in all likelihood an American case. Whether it is actually 18 carat and contains an English movement remains to be seen. Fake English marks in an American case don't imply poor quality by any means; many of these cases are very fine.

    Regards,

    Graham
     
  11. MrRoundel

    MrRoundel Registered User
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    Dec 28, 2010
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    The style of the case is very American. At least it looks that way to me. I seem to recall seeing one or two American movements (At least one a Waltham.) over the years that have a British-style dial like that on them. I do not know that it was original though. Therefore it not inconceivable that there may be an American movement in the case, maybe a Waltham.

    I have an 1857 model Waltham housed in a certainly original gold case that has hallmarks that include a crown and a lion passant, English hallmarks. It is a very high quality case that houses an American movement. It does not, however, have the subject's style of dial.

    My WAG is that there's a Waltham hiding in there. The case doesn't look like it would be deep enough to house an English movement, one with a fusee anyway. Hopefully, the OP will come back in after getting the case opened.
     
  12. gmorse

    gmorse Registered User
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    Hi MrRoundel,

    If as seems likely, the watch dates from the 1880s or 90s, then it could possibly be a keyless English lever with a going barrel in there; they were getting quite slim by then. We'll just have to wait and see . . .

    Regards,

    Graham
     
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  13. MrRoundel

    MrRoundel Registered User
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    Hi, Graham. I certainly would trust your knowledge of English watches, and cases, a lot more than mine. I hope the OP comes back with something just to satisfy curiosity. Cheers.
     
  14. gatordave2000

    gatordave2000 Registered User

    Jan 2, 2017
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    How difficult is it to open the back of the watch to view the "guts" and satisfy ALL curiousity?
     
  15. Kevin W.

    Kevin W. Registered User
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    gatordave, many people dont know how to open a pocket watch. Its better to ask than wreck a case.
     
  16. Keith R...

    Keith R... Registered User
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    Nov 27, 2012
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    #16 Keith R..., Dec 2, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2019
    Here's how I open mine.

    Lift front bezel, at 6 oclock is a tab that if pushed in, should spring
    movement open. If a dust cap is present, slide it until the locking
    clip is moved to it's largest opening and lift off. But note, I'm used
    to it.

    Note, pic one is a outer pair case. I remove my inner case that houses
    movement first. Yours might be just a consular case.

    Caution, I own no stem winding watches. I just noticed your crown.
    I would take it to your watch guy or gal.

    Keith R...

    103_8826 (800x600).jpg amit7 (1200x799).jpg 103_2889 (800x600).jpg
     
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  17. Allan C. Purcell

    Allan C. Purcell Registered User
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    Feb 9, 2013
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    On the fourth photograph above there is is a winding hole-so I should think we have two things, an American case, and probably an old English or American, Swiss, French, German, movement.

    Allan
     
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