American PW Looking for documentation on Hamilton part numbers - most especially hands ....

[StarkFan]

Hi folks,

I acquired a moderate collection of Hamilton hands not too long ago, both pocket and wristwatch sizes. I have the 'Hamilton Watch Co. Identification and Price Guide', and the the 1909 and 1947 (perhaps not complete) 'Hamilton Watch Materials' manuals, but no other resources in this direction.
Can someone please let me know of other possible books or internet resources I should look into for obtaining original Hamilton part #s for their different models/sizes of hands ? In fact, in my case, the same info would be valuable for Elgin as well, as I have a good sized sorted, but unlabeled, collection of those as well.

Thanks !

 

[NC Plumber]

I've got a Hamilton cabinet that has many bottles of hands. I'll check it later today and see if I can provide you with a chart of the part numbers for them.

 

[StarkFan]

Hi, Thank you ! That would be fantastic ! I have a lot of hands, and a lot of part #'s, some of which are connected and probably correct, but many of them clearly are mixed up.

 

[StarkFan]

FYI, I'd somehow missed page #40 of the 1947 materials catalog. It has a little information, but not much. Part #'s for hands at that era seem to all be in the 8xxx range. Unfortunately hand style is not listed (for instance, for 18s, #8001, 8002 and 8003 are just listed as 'Blue').

 

[NC Plumber]

8001- 18 size blue heavy spade 22mm
8002- 18 size blue 24 hour 20mm
8010- 16 size blue moon 20mm
8011- 16 size blue 24 hour 19mm
8012- 16 size blue R.R. 20mm
8013- 16 size blue moon 20mm
8017- 16 size wine diamond 20mm
8041- 12 size blue diamond 18.5 mm
8042- 12 size gilt solid diamond 18.5mm
8045- 12 size blue open spade 19mm
8047- 12 size blue spear 18.5mm
8048- 12 size gilt spear 18.5mm

 

[StarkFan]

Hi,
Ahh, thanks - that's a big help ! I'll post again next weekend after I get more of this collection sorted out. I seem to have Gothic, Crescent, Spade (light, med., heavy, straight and swelled waist), Moon, Breguet, Open Diamond, Solid Diamond, Kite, Triangle, Double Hour, Luminous, Rhodium/Skeleton, Whip and Fleur de Lis, in various sizes, so it could take some sorting out. I'm hoping to see a pattern in the numbering, as I think I've got stuff in the part # ranges of xxx, 1xxx, 2xxxx, 3xxx, 4xxx and maybe higher, plus the 8xxx stuff.

 

[NC Plumber]

I can provide numbers and descriptions for the smaller sizes also if you need them.

 

[StarkFan]

That would be great, thanks ! Once I get a bit more organized I should be able to start filling in some addition info myself, and can post descriptions of items in hopes we can eventually identify part #'s for them.

 

[StarkFan]

Got through sorting and measuring hands that are nominally in the 8xxx part number range. This information is definitely very tentative, as many of the open containers these came in had mixed hands in them, so I'm sometimes guessing as to what might be the correct part number for any given style/size of hand. If anyone has corrections to this tentative data, please let me know. I'll be adding more info. as I sort through more groups of parts. Please note that lengths are from a single sample, so might easily vary by as much as 1mm from the nominal. Hole sizes were measured in inches, then interpolated to the most reasonable mm size.

8011 16s, Open Diamond, Swelled waist, Blue, H: 1.5mm hole, 14mm length (center of hole, to tip)
8016 16s, Open Diamond, Swelled waist, Blue, H: 1.75mm hole, 15mm length, M: 1mm hole, 20mm length
8019 16s, Heavy Spade, Straight waist, Blue, H: 1.8mm hole, 15.5mm length
8087 6/0s, Triangle over Bar, Swelled waist, Blue, M: 0.75mm hole, 11mm length
8094, 6/0s, Baton, Gilt, H: 1.4mm hole, 6.5mm length
8096 6/0s, Modern, Gilt, M: 0.75mm hole, 8.5mm length
8100 6/0s, Alpha, Gilt, H: 1.4mm hole, 7.5mm length, M: 0.75mm hole, 11.5mm length
8204 14/0s, Alpha, Gilt, H: 0.95mm hole, 4mm length (might be 8260 too)
Alternate option for 8204, Solid Diamond over Bar, Gilt, M: 0.6mm hole, 7mm length
8262 14/0s, Luminous, H: 8.5mm length, M: 11.5mm length - this might be for 6/0s and either wrong part # wrong label on original box of parts. I didn't want to handle them further, hence I didn't measure the hole sizes.
8398 21/0s, Alpha, H: 0.95mm, 3mm length
9515 21/0s (presumably), Alpha, Bue, H: 0.95mm hole, 3mm length

 

[StarkFan]

Got through some more sorting and measuring. Any corrections, additional info or details, etc. would be welcome:

114, 18s, Spade, slim waist, Blue, H: 2.5mm hole, 16mm length.
441, 16s, Light Spade, slim waist, Blue, H: 1.75mm hole, 14mm length, M: 1mm hole, 20mm length
442, 16s, Moon, Blue, H: 1.75mm hole, 15mm length, M: 1mm hole, 20mm length
1408, 12s, Light Spade, straight waist, H: 1.75mm hole, 13.75mm length, M: 1mm hole, 19.25mm length
1423, 12s, Triangle over Bar, swelled waist, Blue, H: 1.5mm hole, 13.5mm length, M: 0.95mm hole, 18.5mm length
1424, 12s, Triangle over Bar, swelled waist, Wine, H: 1.45mm hole, 13.5mm length, M: 0.95mm hole, 18.5mm length
1425, Same as 1424, but Gilt ?
1967A, 6/0s, Breguet, Blue, H: 1.4mm hole, 8mm length, M: 0.75mm hole, 10mm length
2423, 6/0s, Baton/Diamond, Blue, H: 1.425mm hole, 6.5mm length, M: 0.75mm hole, 9.25mm length
2520A, ??s, ?? style, Gilt
4619, 14/0s, Triangle over Bar, Blue, H: 1.25mm hole, 5.5mm length, M: 0.617mm hole, 7.5mm length
5264, 14/0s, Pointex, Gilt, M: 0.617mm hole, 5.5mm length
5265, 14/0s, Diamond, Gilt, M: 0.5mm hole, 5.25mm length (this part # and size is probably incorrect, given the small hole size)
8003, 18s, Medium Heavy Spade, straight waist, Blue, H: 2.5mm hole, 15mm length
8113, 6/0s, Luminous (for 'Clinton' model)
8127, 8/0s, Dauphine, Black, H: 0.95mm hole, 5mm length (one one example, so not certain that this is correct)

Some 18s hands without part #'s:

?, 18s, Medium Spade, swelled waist, Blue, H: 2.45mm hole, 15mm length, M: 1.25mm hole, 20mm length
?, 18s, Medium Spade, swelled waist, Blue, H: 2.5mm hole, 14.5mm length
?, 18s, Heavy Spade, straight waist, Blue, H: 2.45mm hole, 13.5mm length
?, 18s, Medium Heavy Spade, straight waist, Blue, H: 2.5mm hole, 16mm length
?, 18s, Medium Spade, straight waist, Blue, H: 2.5mm hole, 16mm length
?, 18s, Thin Spade, straight waist, Blue, M: 1.35mm hole, 21.5mm length

The following hands were in a container labelled 1558, for 0s. Not sure what their correct part #'s should be:

?, 6/0(?) (and 0s?), Thin Spade, straight waist, Blue, H:1.425mm hole, 9.25mm length, M: 0.75mm hole, 13.5mm length
?, 6/0(?) (and 0s?), Thin Spade, swelled waist, Wine, H:1.4mm hole, 9mm(?) length, M:0.75mm hole, 13.5mm length
?, 6/0(?) (and 0s?), Medium Heavy Whip, Blue, M: 0.7mm hole, 13mm length
?, 6/0(?) (and 0s?), Heavy Spade, straight waist, H: 1.4mm hole, 8.75mm length
?, 6/0(?) (and 0s?), Thin Spade, straight waist, Wine, H: 1.4mm hole, 9.5mm length
?, 6/0(?) (and 0s?), Thin Spade, swelled waist, Blue, H: 1.4mm hole, 8.75mm length

 

[Jim Haney]

The most complete and up to date Catalog for Hamilton is c1961 and is a small spiral bound 84 page book. I believe you can borrow one from the Library. It has the old and new #'s in it . It has 6 pages of hands

 

[StarkFan]

Hi Jim,
Thanks ! I'll get that on loan this week then.

 

[technitype]

This information on hands is something we really need to come to grips with...

 

[StarkFan]

OK, thanks - I wasn't sure if maybe this topic was just a distracting side road of little interest or not ... I'll get the 1961 Hamilton catalog and keep working on the stuff I've got. In the 1947 catalog they have the 8xxxx part #'s, watch size and 'blue, gilt, ....' etc. but no mention of the hand style/geometry. Hopefully the 1961 catalog will have a bit more detail, and perhaps cover the 4xxxx #'s as well as the early stuff. In my innocence, I would have thought this would have all been sorted out long ago ;-)

 

[StarkFan]

Hi Jim,
I got the 1961 catalog on loan today at first glance it indeed seems to have most of what I've been looking for. It doesn't reference early part #'s (previous to 8xxxx), but it has all the other descriptions I was missing, so it should help me finally finish sorting and properly labeling all the loose Hamilton hands I came across not long ago. If I have any questions I'll append to this post.
Thanks for everyone's help with this project !

 

[Nookster]

Does anyone happen to have a chart of what Hamilton bottles contain what? I have bottles from mid 100 thru 800's and would like to be able to determine what the parts are for.