Longines?

Discussion in 'European & Other Pocket Watches' started by Donovan Martin, Apr 1, 2020.

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  1. Donovan Martin

    Donovan Martin Registered User

    Jul 12, 2010
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    Found this today and haven’t had much luck getting info. I know absolutely nothing about this brand and I have reservations as to the authenticity of this one. No serial number on the movement.

    8BF58B6F-554C-46E5-8CF4-E6A92972A581.jpeg ABBEDC65-286C-4E61-848C-4A84CC711F6D.jpeg F1E800A4-B87B-4D8B-A51F-0BEF2398E186.jpeg AA290B2B-44A4-4EEF-91E2-E56B1631A381.jpeg D9C68E03-4557-447F-8F17-8D8EF09F7C7C.jpeg F37A54EF-B92C-4901-9ACF-ABCFCB31E803.jpeg
     
  2. roughbarked

    roughbarked Registered User

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  3. Jeff Hess

    Jeff Hess Moderator
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    looks legit.
     
  4. roughbarked

    roughbarked Registered User

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    Certainly looks like a modernised 18.50.
     
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  5. Jerry Treiman

    Jerry Treiman Registered User
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    ditto .... looks totally legit to me too.
     
  6. Donovan Martin

    Donovan Martin Registered User

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    I think it looks nice but I can't find any info on it to put with it on my shelf.
     
  7. Jeff Hess

    Jeff Hess Moderator
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  8. Donovan Martin

    Donovan Martin Registered User

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  9. John Matthews

    John Matthews Registered User
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    #9 John Matthews, Apr 2, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2020
    I believe this may be caliber 20L configured as a hunter. I have a certified example #462048 configured as an open face.

    20200107 001.jpg 20200107 002.jpg 20200107 003.jpg 8 mechanism.jpg

    It was invoiced by Longines on 15 September, 1888 to the company Grosjean in La Chaux-de-Fonds, which was at that time was their agent for several countries including Germany, Belgium, Italy, Sweden.

    John

    EDIT - the case serial number #495642 ? will be the serial number of the watch and, if I have read the number correctly, is also from 1888/89. Longines, under normal circumstances will happily provide information see here - Obtain a Longines certificate of authenticity

    John
     
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  10. Jerry Treiman

    Jerry Treiman Registered User
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    Ideally this is so, but there can be exceptions. I have an 18-ligne Longines movement #497749 (marked under the dial) but the silver Longines case is #497689, i.e. 60 numbers apart. I suspect the movements and cases got out of synch on the assembly line.
     
  11. John Matthews

    John Matthews Registered User
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    #11 John Matthews, Apr 2, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2020
    Jerry,

    While I agree that you definitely cannot draw the general inference that a case serial number will correspond to the movement serial number and it is wise to make that point. For this particular watch I believe it is very safe to make the inference. The serial number is found on the inside of the 'Longines engraved dome' and the movement caliber, and age, are all consistent with the number. It was a serial number stamped in the same manner on the watch I illustrated, that Longines used to identify the watch and issue their certificate of authenticity. When the watch was subsequently serviced the same serial number was stamped on the movement.

    IMG_1229.jpg

    Having read your post more carefully - I apologise for failing to do initially - the scenario you describe is certainly very plausible. Have you obtained a certificate from Longines and pointed out the discrepancy?

    I should have made the point that '20L corresponds the the open face caliber and the 'L' most probably is specific to that style.

    John
     
  12. pmwas

    pmwas Registered User

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    Funny - it is a common thing that early movements look ‚too bad’ for a good brand and are taken for fakes.

    I have a Longines that - partly due to it’s poor condition - looks like fake, and there were doubts about it, but was in fact confirmed original by Longines itself :D
     
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  13. Donovan Martin

    Donovan Martin Registered User

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    Serial number is under the dial? I really want the information. Is there a link to removing this one? It is very different from the Elgin's and Hamilton's I've some limited experience with!
     
  14. roughbarked

    roughbarked Registered User

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    I don't think it is common thing.

    All I was saying was that in the case of movements like this that were in use for such a long time, variations may differ enough from originals to beg the question.
     
  15. Jerry Treiman

    Jerry Treiman Registered User
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    The dial has two feet that are pinned. You can see one of the dial-foot pins in between the balance cock and the top plate. There will be another one accessible through a small access hole in the edge of the movement, near the winding pinion. Dial feet may be snug, so once the pins are out lift the dial away evenly and gradually so as to not crack the dial.
     
  16. pmwas

    pmwas Registered User

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    But it is. Some early Vacherons seem not good enough to be a Vacheron. Some early Pateks - as well. Same with early Longines or IWC (the full plate low grade model for example). Of course there are fakes, that’s another thing. But also some early movement are identified as ‚fake’ or ‚likely fake’ until an expert pops in ;)
     

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