Longines deck clock Cal. 24.41

Discussion in 'European & Other Pocket Watches' started by Dael, Dec 9, 2015.

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  1. Dael

    Dael Registered User

    Dec 9, 2015
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    Hello guys,I just acquired this Longines clock Cal. 24.41 that seems very rare, with a marble socket but it is not running. I am taking it to be checked, I would appreciate any comments. 23t3tli.jpg 14xhqwy.jpg 1el9gi.jpg 5x0mtk.jpg The crystal is such a good shape and it is truly a good looking clock but Im not sure if I should fix it or leave it as it is. I also have seen a clock very similar to this one but it is identified as a marine clock, even though, my clock serial number was checked for Longines with the original marble socket and I doubt it is a marine clock.I would really be thankful for any info since I am not a watch expert. I heard that the 8-days marine clocks are rare, Is it this clock 8-days?Elías.
     
  2. Luis Casillas

    Luis Casillas Registered User

    Oct 16, 2012
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    Hi Elías,

    I believe you'll get a better response to this question in either the European Pocket Watches or the Chronometers subforums. I'm not sure which subforum is best, but I'll move it to European Pocket Watches since I suspect you'll get a better response there.
     
  3. Dael

    Dael Registered User

    Dec 9, 2015
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    Thank you Luis,

    I found also that the serial 4086712 was made around 1923, the cover is marked "261168 RC" from inside and was sold to Gathmann company in 1927. I still dont have any idea about the uses or performances of this watch.

    I was reading in this forum about railroad watches and torpedo boat watches made by Longines, and watches in 18 and 16 size. Could anyone please explain what "in 18 and 16 size" means? Could I measure my clock?

    Thank you.

    Elías.
     
  4. LloydB

    LloydB Registered User

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    #4 LloydB, Dec 11, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2015
    Well, my previous reply seems to have evaporated.

    "18 and 16 size" are traditional men's American
    pocket watch sizes, both smaller than yours (unless
    I have my conversions confused).

    Larger movements (like yours) were produced by
    numerous manufacturers, and often used in car
    clocks, travel clocks and desk/table clocks.

    The groove along the bottom of your marble 'holder'
    would make a good pen-rest.
     
  5. Dael

    Dael Registered User

    Dec 9, 2015
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    Thank you Lloydb for the info about size.

    Im sure it was sold as a desk clock, as you pointed it, the marble holder is original and it was mentioned by Longines when I asked about the serial #. However, I find it weird that it is made of heavy brass parts. Can you tell if it is a chronometer clock? It is an accurate movement?

    I already talked to a Longines customer service in my country for checking the overall condition and I am afraid it is going to be an expensive restoration and thats why I want to know a bit more about this clock, be sure it is a good movement and it is going to last when I fix it.
     
  6. Luis Casillas

    Luis Casillas Registered User

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    What do the subdials indicate? I'm guessing the one at 6 o'clock is the seconds subdial, but I can't tell what the one at 12 o'clock is. Top candidates: (a) 31 day calendar; (b) power reserve.

    That very much depends on what you mean by "chronometer," which is a term that has been used in a multitude of senses over the pas 230 years or so. I don't know enough about Longines to tell for sure where the 24.41 movement fits into the scheme of things, but I will observe a few things:

    1. The watch has 17 jewels and a micrometric regulator, so it's certainly not a bottom-of-the-market piece.
    2. On the other hand the movement has no markings saying that it's been adjusted to any specific standards (e.g., "Adjusted to three/five positions").
    3. Navigational watches did not come on marble desk mounts like yours.
    4. I checked my books on military and precision watches, and the 24.41 movement was not mentioned as one that was used on navigational watches. (That's by no means conclusive—it's an "absence of evidence" statement, not an "evidence of absence" one.)

    Again, I'm not a Longines expert, but I see no conclusive evidence that it's a navigational watch. It's really salient qualities are the large size, the marble desk mount, and whatever that additional subdial does.
     
  7. Dael

    Dael Registered User

    Dec 9, 2015
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    Hello Luis,

    Yes the one at 6 o´clock is a second subdial 0-10-20-30-40-50-60 and subdivisions.

    The other subdial is a power reserve "jours" 1 to 8

    So do you think the watch really deserves a restauration?

    Thanks you.
     
  8. LloydB

    LloydB Registered User

    Feb 24, 2006
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    A quick search on this maker and the calibre brought up
    only a couple -- one at 'that online site' (8-day, 17j) and
    described as a "chronometer" -- in a gimbaled box.

    Another at J&H -- completed auction, May 2014, an
    interesting special model.

    Is the desk clock variation worth repairing? So difficult
    to guess, not knowing what's needed. Parts? Service?
     
  9. Dael

    Dael Registered User

    Dec 9, 2015
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    I guess I need to wait until the clock gets checked because I have no idea. But the real question would be then how much should I afford to get it fixed. The one in that online site is not exactly the same watch I think, however, it looks similar. As you indicated it has the word "Chronometer" stamped inside and a extremely good old original gimbaled box that probably worth more than the clock...so I am not confident to pay a large amount of money to get it fixed. Hopefully it would cost me just several bucks I can really enjoy this watch and its movement.

    I would like to see the other one you found at auction because maybe that one doesnt have the amazing gimbaled box and it is the same movement so I can be sure when the bill comes if it is payable or not.

    Thank you guys for your time, im getting a lot of knowledge in this forum and It is really interesting world.
     
  10. Dr. Jon

    Dr. Jon Registered User
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    This one is a very fine desk clock and much better than usual for this use but, these do not have a lot of value. If you want to use the clock a clean and lube job may be worth doing but if you are doing this to enhance its value for re-sale it is unlikely to pay. This is especially true of it needs a major part rebuilt.

    Longines made a lot of very fine items but they made a lot of them and very few high value. Navigation timepieces with chronometer markings are high value especially in good boxes, with or without gimbals. Your clock lacks these features.
     
  11. Dael

    Dael Registered User

    Dec 9, 2015
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    It is contradictory what you say. I dont know if Longines made a large lot of this clocks but I can tell the truth is that they are just few of them with this cal. and havent found one exactly equal with the original marble when I look the web. So if the clock is fine but low value because it is lots of them, it is contradictory.

    Secondly, I want the clock to be working and It is not. Yet I have no idea what is wrong with it and I would enjoy pretty much having this clock working my problem is that I cant spend much on fixing it because I dont have much.

    Each time I try to find out another clock at least similar to this one I realice it is special and it would be very nice looking on my desk.

    Here I found a pic of a very similar clock extracted from Longines milestone products "8-day clock serving as desk chronometer. Fitted with a caliber 24.41 lever-escapement movement. Marble stand."

    33v254y.jpg


     
  12. itspcb

    itspcb Registered User
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    Dael
    Longines publish a large book on all the watch movements from 1832 to 2009 by Patrick Linder. In there your watch is described. It was developed by Longines for use in desk top, car dash, etc applications and as such was one of the first eight day movements from Longines, it does therefore pop up in different packages as you have noticed. It was available from 1920. It comes in two versions a top wind like yours and a back wind, giving Longines and others the flexibility to mount it in different ways. It is not recognised as a chronometer because it is not an adjusted watch. But it is made to a high standard and one I would be pleased to own. Having Longines fix it would result in a large bill, so I hope you can find someone locally to do it for you at a much lower cost. It should not be too difficult to clean and oil, but Longines do not sell parts alone which makes life difficult.
    Good luck

    Peter
     
  13. Dael

    Dael Registered User

    Dec 9, 2015
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    Thank you Peter for this good, complete explanation and your advise about fixing it. That makes all clear now except that the Longines catalog shows about the movement.

    2zgako9.jpg

    As you see my clock looks more like cal. 19.41 and not like the 24.41 shown in the catalog.

    Best regards.
     
  14. itspcb

    itspcb Registered User
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    There were different versions of the 24.21 calibre. Linder's book shows one version that is identical to yours. It is a complex story how they developed at least three versions but be assured yours is 100% OK.
    Peter
     
  15. Dael

    Dael Registered User

    Dec 9, 2015
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    That's a good news Peter. I was thinking that it could have been a Frankenstein clock.

    Thanks again, you have been pretty helpful.
     
  16. Jerry Treiman

    Jerry Treiman Registered User
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    I think these are interesting pieces and, judging from my own example, of fairly good quality. Mine is calibre 19,41. I think the presence of the bridge over the winding wheel is just related to the movement being key wound rather than stem wound.
    View attachment 283662 View attachment 283661
     
  17. itspcb

    itspcb Registered User
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    And interesting to note that Jerry's watch is adjusted to 5 adjustments.
    Nice piece!

    Peter
     
  18. Dael

    Dael Registered User

    Dec 9, 2015
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    Jerry that's an amazing timepiece. Can you tell me more of the balance wheel in your clock? It is different that the one in my 24.41? Yours look pretty nice, clean and excellent condition.

    So far I have been learning about this type of mechanisms. The lever escapement, cut bimetallic balance wheel (I believe this is what my clock has) and the Breguet balance spring to deal with temperatures changes in order to keep an accurate time.

    How the maker performs a temperature adjustment or a position adjustment? I want to read more about this.

    Thank you very much for sharing!

    Dael.
     

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