Most visitors online was 1990 , on 7 Feb 2022
If it was going into warning at the time, then the last strike section did not finsh as it would have had the rack at the end not in the middle.The next shot is during the failed warning….the GP is catching the rack here. I’ve looked and it was the only thing catching it. I think I need to find a way to keep the GP just a little further away from the rack…
Hmmm….it never seems to have an issue completing the strikes. If you watch the video I posted In post #342, that gives you be best illustration of what is happening.If it was going into warning at the time, then the last strike section did not finsh as it would have had the rack at the end not in the middle.
I never move the hands backwards past the hour. To be honest, the piece of the rack that contacts with the wheel is very stiff as is the screw hold it it in place so I doubt it would have the ability to be sprung anywhere.Above is part 1 , so try it to see if the rack is clear of the hook and still in warning.
Part 2, now you need to get the lifting part of the lever (the one that the pin on the hour wheel lifts the whole lever up with) in the right position. If part 1 worked then you have a mark on the hour wheel.
Looking at the brass spring (which is there so the hands can be moved anticlockwise) it is above the screw, this should be below the screw and need to be bent so that when the pin is lifting the lever it prevents it from moving to the left and the tip of it is on the mark you made on the wheel.
If the above works then I would not move the hands backward as the spring is crude and may bend out of shape and you would be back to square one.
The spring is there for the reason you suggested….turning the hands anti-clockwise. It’s just a case that the screw has become very stiff to turn over the years and do when screwed into place, it doesn’t allow the vertical piece any movement.So why is the spring there?
It’s not the pin it is catching on, it is quite difficult to explain but it the long piece of the GP (not the tooth that pulls the rack but the piece that hangs down) is snagging the teeth of the rack. That’s why I believe the gp’s arbor needs to be pushed forward to allow a millimetre or two clearance.If the gp in is catching on pin when warning mode completes that means gp is out of sync.
Jimmy mentioned earlier you could test gp by pulling gp pin and rotate 1/4 turn. So you could try all 4 quadrants (square arbor) and see which works best.
You could either buy an assortment of watch taper pins from Cousins or HS Walsh, or file down one of the pins in your collection; do you know how to file down a taper pin so that it stays round?Any thoughts on where I could get something this small? Even the thinnest of pins I have won’t look at the hole in this arbor. Red circle around the remaining bit of the original. I can barely pick it up never mind insert it…..
Cheers Graham, I might need to buy some more. managed to stab my finger twice in the process but got one filed down eventually! I’d love to hear the method for keeping it round though as this one has lost its shape a little. It’ll hopefully suffice for now thoughHi Snorty,
You could either buy an assortment of watch taper pins from Cousins or HS Walsh, or file down one of the pins in your collection; do you know how to file down a taper pin so that it stays round?
The play I’m referring to here is actually play in a circular motion….ie turning motion. The arbor does have in and out play too though! 1-2mm or there aboutsA few mm of movement of the GP is a lot! I'm assuming this is in and out movement. You may need to reduce that end play with a longer bushing.
Take a piece of wood, preferably a hardwood, about an inch square in section, (doesn't matter much if it's bigger or smaller), file some shallow tapered grooves in one end, just deep enough to leave about half the pin diameter showing, and grip it in the bench vice. Holding the pin in a pin vice, file with a fairly fine file whilst rotating the pin in a groove against the stroke of the file. This will keep the pin reasonably straight and allow you to form the amount of taper that you need. This is just an old offcut of mahogany that's been in use for this purpose for a long time.I’d love to hear the method for keeping it round though as this one has lost its shape a little.
It’s definitely play, the arbor is still whilst I’m showing the gathering pallet moving in the video .Not really play I think, but could be wrong. You're forcing the gp gearing backwards and naturally there would be some slack.
But there could be excessive slack considering the age. Examine the pinions and arbors for slack when you push gp like that. But might not mean much.
On one of the gears of the strike train is a small stub of a pin sticking out perpendicular from face of the gear. It is usually the gear proceeding the fly. Sometimes the pin falls out so all that's left is a tiny hole on gear face. That pin is used to stop the strike train on many different types of clocks. When the gp is done lifting the rack one tooth at a time the gp enables/pushes another lever that falls in front of that pinned wheel. Stopping the train.
What is good to do is put finger on fly when pushing hand to activate strike, when rack falls see where it's hanging up. If it's still like you say gp slack allowing part to sag down/catch, then allow fly to spin and stop fly before last strike. Then let fly turn one turn at atime. What you want to see is the stop sequences. What position is gp when lever hits pin.
The square arbor is more difficult I think. If it where round, friction fit, like many are then you could just tweak the gp in a little more favorable position.
Just a thought, not sure as I don't know your movement.
But this makes me think you might have to shift gp position a tooth or two by disengagement from train. You might be able to tweak gp position by altering pinned gear position.
This kind of tweaking doesn't require full disassembly. You can remove pins/nuts of upper post so that plates can be marginally spread open and carefully slip the fly and pinned gear out/disengaged.
This kind of timing adjustment is common on count wheel type movement but not rack n snail.
The square arbor has me uncertain.
That’s great, thanks Graham. I love learning these methods! I’ll likely re-do the pin I filed earlier at some point. I’ll need to find a bit of hardwood from somewhere….I know where I might be able to grab a bit at some point!Hi Snorty,
Take a piece of wood, preferably a hardwood, about an inch square in section, (doesn't matter much if it's bigger or smaller), file some shallow tapered grooves in one end, just deep enough to leave about half the pin diameter showing, and grip it in the bench vice. Holding the pin in a pin vice, file with a fairly fine file whilst rotating the pin in a groove against the stroke of the file. This will keep the pin reasonably straight and allow you to form the amount of taper that you need. This is just an old offcut of mahogany that's been in use for this purpose for a long time.
View attachment 679538
Interesting, I might need to effect a repair to the top to hold the ring in place. I don’t think it rotated when I got the clock. Potentially a brass bolt filed smooth and left to protrude could keep it in place. One tooth is quite badly damaged though..The hole is probably where a tab was riveted to guide the top section of the ring, You can rotate it to free the ring for removal.
The foot for the chapter ring may have broken off at the original pin hole.
I’ve actually just found the piece that was on the dial to begin with….just a 90 degree bent piece of steel. Holds the ring in but it is just a pressure fit in the hole so not likely to remain in place. Unless of course it was threaded in previously and has snapped. That might add up.was it there when you got the clock then? You could let in another pice to make a new tooth for the damaged tooth then resilver, it depends how close the engraving is to the tooth.
Ah, yes, I was wondering what had happened to that part of the ring. If it works, I’m not too bothered as it won’t be seen. The alternative would be to send it down to Andrew along with the hour hand and have him repair it. I’ll give it some thought.It looks like the date ring has been hammered to form enough brass to shape another tooth. It does look a bit vulnerable though.
The flags I mentioned are usually just riveted in and you can rotate them They are not threaded. They are usually brass so that the end of the rivet is not noticeable.
That sounds like a good plan….sadly something I have no experience in whatsoever! Happy to learn of course so we shall see.Some people object to soft soldering some brass in place for a new tooth. I fail to understand why. No need for a dovetail fit, just file a flat. Then I would hold brass scrap underneath good tooth and scratch profile with fine point awl. Then hold that scratch profile behind broken tooth area exactly in place (measured tooth height, distance & angle). Then scratch the flat. Cut that scratch profile out from the scrap and solder that puppy in. When the joint is square, flat to flat, the solder job is nearly invisible.
I was under impression that you had replacement dial, that was my confusion over the gear for date or possibly moon dial. Guess I didn't see date wheel. So it's 100% original..!
That is one nice clock!
A couple things I wonder, can you reach in and manually adjust date?
I wonder if a spring tensioner was employed somehow to assure each day advance has gear tooth in proper position for the next day advance. I dont know, a simple thing where the flat of a piece of spring fits into date wheel tooth profile. The pressure of spring pushes/assures reliable tooth position. It might not of ever had or needed it. But pretty much a standard thing, especially on moon dials I think.
Yes, it is getting quite long now! Nice to have the journey documented thoughIn Post #367 (this thread must be a record for one movement?) there is far to much play in the gathering pallet and it will never work correctly untill that is addresed.
Mmmm….I could probably put a small square hole in a steel washer and try that. It might just be enough to stop it from drooping. Aside from the droop, it seems to work perfectly well.Put a shim between the front plate and the gathering pallet as you don't want it to be rubbing.
Hopefully watching the next 3 videos in order will give a better idea Ralph. I’m afraid, I haven’t had time to remove the gathering pallet to inspect it fully yet.I guess, I misunderstood the problem you are trying to fix. Are you saying the gathering pallet is loose on the arbor square it mounts on. I didn't get the drooped terminology.
Mike, that was also my problem. Now I believe that the OP was telling us the gathering pallet was loose on the arbor square.I've totally lost what the actual problem was, but the last videos looked perfectly normal with the gathering pallet working correctly and the strike occurring at the time it should, and stopping when the tail of the GP hits the pin on the end of the rack.
I see, Ralph. Maybe it would be possible to make a fine saw with a slitting saw and try to close the GP up slightly? It ought not matter too much if it's only slightly loose.Mike, that was also my problem. Now I believe that the OP was telling us the gathering pallet was loose on the arbor square.