Longcase Restoration Project

[novicetimekeeper]

Always fit the pendulum first. The seatboard would not have been fixed originally, the movement is not secure in the case until the pendulum is in place. That stops the clock tipping forward out of the case, and as you have discovered stops the movement running away with driving force but nothing to control it.

 

[Snorty]

Thank you for that……..as always where clocks are concerned, I’m learning every day!

 

[daveR]

And if you are really unlucky, and it runs away, you could bend the tips of some or all of the teeth on the escape wheel!

 

[Mike Phelan]

I have tried to demonstrate in this video….the weight is not attached but I am placing tension on the gut line and then the time side winding barrel directly.

That looks perfectly normal

From what I had read it was supposed to be done the other way around…..seems I have been misled…

Not critical - if you hang the pendulum first you might damage the suspension spring - putting it on after the movement is in the case, you need to make sure that you put the weights in first otherwise the movement will fall over head first

 

[daveR]

And I have to admit that Mike's point is also
valid !! Whichever way you go, take it carefully.

 

[Snorty]

Thanks guys…..seems a slight difference of opinion there but at least I know that what I’m seeing isn’t an issue!
There is, however, another problem that I am seeing as I am setting things up. …the hands are very slack, To the point that you cannot sit them at quarter past / to the hour, they fall to half past…..and that is with a new domed washer and taper pin inserted.
Thinking about the issue this movement had where the centre arbor had been soldered to the cannon pinion, could this be the lead on from the removal of that solder?
I’m wondering if the only way to attempt to correct this is with disassembly of the front again and increase the tension from the cup washer? Obviously I haven’t reassembled the dial at this stage but that shouldn’t make any difference. Thoughts please gentlemen!

oh, and just to mention on a side note, the perlon guy worked very well…..little bit of a git to tie but wound perfectly and even hung quite straight prior to hanging the weights

 

[daveR]

Ahh yes, Ii was told back when i was first interested in clocks that there will ways be several ways of doing the same thing.
When you mount the minute hand if it is too easy you may not be compressing the washer enough for it to hold the hand . You may need to put in an extra washer. Also make sure it is riding on the step of the centre arbor and not the plate itself.

 

[daveR]

I am assuming of course that the hand is on the square of the canon and staying there when you turn it.

 

[Snorty]

Cheers Dave….2 domed washers was the answer!! Much appreciated!
Just need to tinker with my strike side now as the strike is coming in at about 2 minutes to the hour. Aside from that, it looks fairly good so far

 

[novicetimekeeper]

Not critical - if you hang the pendulum first you might damage the suspension spring - putting it on after the movement is in the case, you need to make sure that you put the weights in first otherwise the movement will fall over head first

You put the movement and dial on the side cheeks, support it, then put the pendulum on. Of course you don't fit the pendulum before putting the movement and dial in place. Once the pendulum is hanging from the backcock you can then stop supporting the dial as it can no longer tip forward.

Once you have all that stable you can fit the weights. To remove simply reverse the procedure.

 

[Snorty]

A massive thank you to everyone has helped me along the way with this first project The wealth of knowledge between you all is quite incredible.
I feel like I am on the home straight now although there are still a few jobs left. Dial silvering next and there are some repairs to the case required although those will be a little further down the line. Andrew Firth is going to sort my broken hour hand too.
Just great to hear her running again after all this time and a joy to be able to set the time without dragging the movement around!!

English Longcase post Cleanjng 1st Run

youtube.com

 

[JimmyOz]

Cheers Dave….2 domed washers was the answer!! Much appreciated!

All you needed to do was to add a little more bend to the spring under the hour cannon.

 

[Snorty]

All you needed to do was to add a little more bend to the spring under the hour cannon.

Yep, I knew that would be one option…I’d have had to disassemble quite a bit to get to that I’d have thought?

 

[JimmyOz]

Yep, I knew that would be one option…I’d have had to disassemble quite a bit to get to that I’d have thought?

Have you considered that it is the right way?

 

[Snorty]

Have you considered that it is the right way?

I think the likelihood is that the sprung washer will need to be replaced due to the battering it took trying to separate the cannon pinion. I put plenty of tension on it. I’ll probably just source a new one..

 

[RJSoftware]

Beautiful clock.

Reading this thread way late, good to see your perseverance won.

Something I noticed unaddressed, when you adjusted time and found the second hand advancing forward this addressed multiple issues.

First as mentioned, the crutch pushing at feather. A flexing point. Second, excess play on crutch friction fit. Both points mentionr. 3rd, no mention of crutch foot gap maybe excessive.

These conditions definitely contributed to the escape (ew teeth advancing through palettes) running and advancing second hand and NOT holding firm resistance, so that clutch could slip.

The combined factors and perhaps a shallow anchor depth and excessively strong clutch grip bullied the escapement to advance.

What I would have done at that point was reach in with hand and held escape wheel from turning (perhaps blocked rotation with metal rod) and then advanced minute hand gently to see if clutch would give.

In other words all of the clutch issues may have been avoided, it may have been adequate as was.

Not being critical. Just pointing out something I noticed. On a recent clock I have acquired. It's clutch arrangement was a little more uncommon. The minute hand has cannon that rotates on center shaft like yours, but the clutch is much like a watch clutch as a dimple made on the minute hand tube (a crushed portion of tube) provides the grip/slip.

I forget exactly now and too lazy to get up off couch and look, but I think the center shaft on mine provides the power/rotation from gear train. The clutch grip/slip action is a dent on side of the minute hand tube (minute cannon). (I got off couch, yep I was right).

So the minute cannon tube slides onto a rotating arbor. The dent on side of tube provides the grip. That is the clutch. If the dent doesn't grip enough dent it more. If it grips too much put a taper punch inside and push dent out.

So the point of that mess is that you may of had that kind of clutch. But I assume now you have established that it is cupped washer+pin. But I read minute hand sags at quarter hour (true?).

The clutch allows hand advancing independently from time train advancement(slip) yet the clutch grips enough to push motion works (3 gear train of hands) forward.

A clutch too loose hands flop and droop from gravity or lose time. A clutch too tight can result in a bent minute hand from trying to force it. (I'm reminded of the monkey elephant joke -lol, my uncle was a trip).

Pushing hands forward will speed up escape when pendulum is active but should never force escape action when pendulum is still. This means there is too much play in crutch/escape.

The crutch foot has a very minimal gap at the suspension rod. So highly suspect contributor is the excessively long suspension leader. The foot should have slightly perceived gap with rod. The foot needs to be close but big enough gap for "drop" of escape (lock, impulse, drop). Too much gap loses impulse performance. Plus foot needs to slide on suspension rod. Friction here can actually stop clock if there where no gap.

Anyway, you're doing great job..!

Btw,
The rule on clutch tightness is pushing hand backwards doesn't stop escape advancement. But that's watch world rule

 

[Snorty]

Thank you! Interesting points and it would have been intriguing to try some of those options at the start.
Also interesting that you mentioned excessive gap at the crutch foot. I have always felt there is quite a bit of play there. I’m not sure whether it is worth trying to address that?
Ultimately, I doubt the clutch would ever have functioned due to the whole lot being soldered together but I could be wrong!
A slight further update, it has run right through the night I’m pleased to report…..however!…there is an issue with the strike side. It appears that the hammer is being allowed to strike once during warning. I’m thinking the gathering pallet could be catching slightly. I’ll try and get a video a little later when I’m back at home.
I dare say it would have been too much to hope for that it would have been smooth sailing from here on in

 

[RJSoftware]

The issue with a strike at the warning is probably timing. The hammer wheel and hammer should be in resting position after each stop.

In a rack/snail this means the gathering palette (lifts rack one tooth at a time for each strike) is not properly stopping at end of each strike session. On most gathering palettes are friction fit to arbor and they can be turned to new position on shaft. But I do not know yours.

Examine gathering palette to see how it stops. Observe if hammer is at resting position. What happens is the hammer is already being lifted at last stop when should be resting. The warning rotates just a little, but since previous stop was wrong it turns enough to drop hammer.

 

[RJSoftware]

Curious, did extra cupp washer do the trick with your clutch (hands not drooping)?

 

[shutterbug]

From what I had read it was supposed to be done the other way around…..seems I have been mislead…

I don't think it really makes much difference. It might be a little harder to get it in behind the weights and to capture the wagging hanger, but no harm to anything.

 

[RJSoftware]

Wanted to mention, sometimes I can hold a gear before strike fly with one hand a give slight twist to gathering palette with other hand to adjust timing. No disassembly required to movement. But might not work on yours. Most are friction fit, some set screw. Dont know about yours.

 

[Snorty]

Wanted to mention, sometimes I can hold a gear before strike fly with one hand a give slight twist to gathering palette with other hand to adjust timing. No disassembly required to movement. But might not work on yours. Most are friction fit, some set screw. Dont know about yours.

Thanks for the thoughts, I shall have a closer look this evening as had to head to work just now. The issue is definitely centred around the warning. I’ll be able to get a video this evening to hopefully help illustrate things a little better.
hopefully it can be rectified without further disassembly.

oh, and yes, a second cup washer gave enough extra pressure to the hands and they now feel perfect. It can’t be seen either which is great! As Jimmy pointed out, sorting the sprung washer would probably be preferable but this is ideal for now.

 

[Snorty]

So……after turning the minute hand through about 24 hours and observing closely, I THINK I have found and fixed the issue.
From what I could see, the rack tail was catching on the snail and not allowing the rack pin to seat properly down into the relevant section. I have simply teased the tail out a little….just enough to clear whilst still allowing the pin to sit down. Hopefully that’s all it was!
I shall be observing closely over the coming hours though to make sure things are happening as they should

 

[JimmyOz]

Don't know what you teased out, however glad you did not try to twist the gathering pallet as this would have bent the arbour!! This type of gathering pallet is attached to the arbour with a square hole, it only has 4 positions you can attach it to. There is usually only one that will work correctly so when setting up the movement you should try all 4 to see if it will work, if not and the lift is catching the rack then look at the lifting lever as this is thin brass and gets bent at times.

 

[RJSoftware]

The gathering palette turns on an arbor. On the first page of this thread he has a picture of his movement, for some reason in that pic the gathering palette is removed.

You must have meant minute hand arbor, That is square with possible 4 positions. Or maybe not. Always something for me to learn.

To get the hand to strike exactly on the 12 usually requires bushing the hand. Sometimes you can get away with flipping hand over.

On the bending of the rack tail, part that lands on snail, some of the earlier clocks didn't account for when rack tail gets caught under snail.

What happens is when people get impatient while advancing hands forwards, they forget to allow movement to complete striking sequence.

There's no problem until the 1:00 oclock rolls around. Thats when the snail blade is tall again. So if owner advances to 12 the rack falls down low. If owner keeps advancing hands forward without waiting, the rack tail gets caught under the snail and bends inward and wont catch the snail properly until it's bent back out.

So some manufacturers made rack tails flexible so they glide over instead. To avoid this all together I stop at 11 and 12 and dont advance till strike sequence finishes on each. From 1 to 10 you can advance without waiting. When strike sequence is done the tail is out of the way.

Another thing is even with flexible rack tail it's hard on them. So I try to avoid rushing time setting.

Just remember the 1 o'clock blade does the chopping. So let the 12 ring full.

Why I slow down after the 10 is allow clock to resequence chimes (auto correct).Just a good habit if you have many clocks

 

[Snorty]

The photo on page 1 of the thread at the very bottom of the page shows the gathering pallet in place.
The rack tail on this movement is actually formed from 2 layers, one brass and one steel. It was the lower layer that was catching on the edge of the snail and not allowing the rack pin to drop onto the snail.
I always allow the clock to strike out correctly before I advance….on every hour. I prefer it that way.
I did have an issue whilst advancing the movement by hand yesterday though….the gathering pallet somehow jammed on the rack preventing the minute hand moving. Thankfully I just stopped the movement, partially removed the rack from its arbor and re-fitted it which sorted things out.
The striking issue did seem to occur at 1 o’clock but after bending the tail out a tiny bit all seemed to be well. That said, I’ve yet to go downstairs to check on it this morning and I can’t hear it strike from my bedroom so who knows if all is still running smoothly or not!! I’ll let you know

 

[RJSoftware]

Hmmm, post #49. I must be blind, I do not see gathering palette. I see the ratchet that prevents rack from sliding back, but just to right of rack at top end I see an empty arbor. The last rack tooth points at arbor

Maybe this is image cache computer thing (previous pic without gp not replaced by newer image).

Can yo repost with red arrow?

 

[Snorty]

It isn’t a very good photo I’m afraid. That arbor you are seeing is the second hand arbor.
GP is more or less pointing at the gathering pallet arbor.

 

[Snorty]

Maybe a bit easier to see here….

 

[Mike Phelan]

I've not been through all the previous posts on the thread, but everything looks fairly good.
A few comments, though:
(1) The rack tail looks quite close to the snail but that's probably because the minute hand hasn't been fitted - it is important that the sprung washer under the cannon pinion and the cup washer on top of the hands are tensioned correctly so that only the pin on the end of the rack tail contacts the snail.
(2) The tail on the GP look a bit short but that won't be a problem.
(3) There should be about half a turn on the warning wheel for the pin to contact the detent.
(4) The movable part on the warning lever is so the hands can be turned backwards but that's not recommended. Spring needs a bit more tension.

By meshing the cannon pinion correctly with the minute wheel it will be possible to have the minute hand striking correctly on the hour.

 

[RJSoftware]

Thank you for taking time for pics. Much appreciated.

 

[Snorty]

I've not been through all the previous posts on the thread, but everything looks fairly good.
A few comments, though:
(1) The rack tail looks quite close to the snail but that's probably because the minute hand hasn't been fitted - it is important that the sprung washer under the cannon pinion and the cup washer on top of the hands are tensioned correctly so that only the pin on the end of the rack tail contacts the snail.
(2) The tail on the GP look a bit short but that won't be a problem.
(3) There should be about half a turn on the warning wheel for the pin to contact the detent.
(4) The movable part on the warning lever is so the hands can be turned backwards but that's not recommended. Spring needs a bit more tension.

By meshing the cannon pinion correctly with the minute wheel it will be possible to have the minute hand striking correctly on the hour.

Thanks for the comments Mike, appreciated as always.
The lack of tension on the sprung washer is probably causing my issues then by the sounds of things….incidentally, the minute hand was fitted in the latter photo.
Not a lot I can do about the GP tail….it seems to work ok though!
I’m not sure if the warning wheel is set correctly or not in that case. I’ll have a look when I re-tension the sprung washer to see if anything needs done. All seems to work ok though.
I should be able to tighten the spring on the warning lever easy enough….they are so blooming delicate though!!

 

[JimmyOz]

The gathering palette turns on an arbor. On the first page of this thread he has a picture of his movement, for some reason in that pic the gathering palette is removed.

No, it is there, don't know what you think is the gathering pallet.

You must have meant minute hand arbor, That is square with possible 4 positions. Or maybe not. Always something for me to learn.

No, I meant the gathering pallet, yes, something you need to learn.

To get the hand to strike exactly on the 12 usually requires bushing the hand. Sometimes you can get away with flipping hand over.

No, you don't need a bushing in the hand, the minute cannon and the hand when set up right will strike the hour on the 12.

 

[Snorty]

So, whilst finishing breakfast at 6am this morning, I heard the clock strike two….looks like I need to give some further attention to my rack tail issue!
The underside of the tail is definitely catching the snail stopping the pin from sitting in the correct section and therefor producing an incorrect number of blows from the hammer.
I was thinking though, if I increase the sprung washer pressure, surely that will force the snail further out increasing the problem?
The rack itself has some front to back play on it (a millimetre or two max) I wonder if perhaps that isn’t helping. Given the rack pin is only a few millimetres in height anyway, there can’t be much in it really….I’ll have a look during warning tonight and see if I can see round the back of the tail to see exactly what is catching.

 

[RJSoftware]

No, it is there, don't know what you think is the gathering pallet.

No, I meant the gathering pallet, yes, something you need to learn.

No, you don't need a bushing in the hand, the minute cannon and the hand when set up right will strike the hour on the 12.

yep, never owned similar movement I guess. The gp looked like ratchet to prevent rack dropping back. But I have seen similar gp but not square arbor. The typical gp I'm use to is either round or has wing like shape. But now I know, thanks. Need to know. Lol.! Not much need and I forget more & more every day.

 

[RJSoftware]

Mike was right about the minute hand being fitted on to establish tail distance. I would consider a small washer underneath rack before I would tweak/bend the tail any great distance.

When the 1 o'clock chop happens the snail blade is supposed to make tail ride over top, but slop can make it bend inward under. The better solution is when tail is designed to flex. Cant tell on yours.

One test you could do is advance to the 12 hour then as strike begins advance to the 1 hour. To see which way tail wants to go (over or under). See what happens with 1 o'clock chop.

But I'd add washer first.

 

[Snorty]

Mmmm…..interesting. A couple of things to look at there then.
Something appears not quite right that’s for sure….the rack seems to be able to get stuck. Exactly what it is getting stuck on, I’m unsure at the present point. I need to observe at warning and I haven’t been able to this evening.
mill hopefully have more time tomorrow night so I’ll video what’s happening to try and give a better idea.

 

[RJSoftware]

It might also be that the wahers you added to increse the clutch action is incorrect. Not exactly understanding where you put them but if the result is that you also lifted the snail distance from plate, which also reduced clearance distance of rack tail so it now hangs.

You might want to check the side of the cannon tube to see if there is a dent formation or perforation that is designed to be squeezed n so that it grips the arbor acting as the clutch.

The French clock that I just purchased from the member Keith has that exact arrangement but I please don't want to take it apart for pics.

If this is indeed the arrangement, then I think it's better to tighten grip with tube on arbor. It's a fiddly delicate thin brass thing. So might be destroyed bending too far in and brass cracks. Or not.

It doesn't need much tension/grip. If you look at the pic you have above that includes the bell, you can see on hour cannon tube a deformation that looks pretty much the same as what was on my minute tube. Though being on hour tube makes no sense. Probably just defect.

Whatever provides power from time train to push the 3 gears of the motion works is where the clutch will be.

In the watch world the most common arrangement is the cannon pinion. So this design pre-dated many of our clocks. The cannon pinion is part of the 3 gears of the motion works, the 3 gears of the hands.The tube of the cannon pinion is often very small and there are specialized tools designed to crush/dent tube to provide that friction fit clutch action.

There are other clutch type arrangement and just when you think you seen it all... For example one uses a pinion off main wheel or maybe next gear, I forget.

I don't know if it was efforts to circumvent patents, marketing advantage or plain old desire to be different that leads to the lack of uniform standards, but uniqueness makes working on them interesting for me. The more wonky the design the more interesting. They went just about every conceivable direction.

Sorry if I am long winded and/or seem condescending. In initial replies I had no idea of your skill level so I write excess detail. You obviously have skill. I write like I do as a policy to leave "bread crumbs" for nubians. (Lol, spell check substitution for nubians put lesbians, glad I caught that one, what confusion that might cause).

 

[RJSoftware]

Hey, the lower gear, is that moon dial or calendar and dont know if I am failing to see moon or calendar on your dial?

I am currently adjusting to my lack of eyesight. Long story short I have recently developed cataracts in both eyes. My left eye is severe but right eye is still good enough. I have elected to postpone surgery till my retinal tares heal better as cataract surgery has possible detachment issues.

Blood sugar is an issue here in the states. So I'm finally no sugar diet. I think I'm doing things right. Spend time healing via diet till retinal flashes are thing of the past, then get the cataract surgery. Left eye, wait couple years then right eye.

 

[novicetimekeeper]

all the best with that, my eyesight is changing quite fast with age, no cataracts as yet.

 

[Snorty]

Hey, the lower gear, is that moon dial or calendar and dont know if I am failing to see moon or calendar on your dial?

I am currently adjusting to my lack of eyesight. Long story short I have recently developed cataracts in both eyes. My left eye is severe but right eye is still good enough. I have elected to postpone surgery till my retinal tares heal better as cataract surgery has possible detachment issues.

Blood sugar is an issue here in the states. So I'm finally no sugar diet. I think I'm doing things right. Spend time healing via diet till retinal flashes are thing of the past, then get the cataract surgery. Left eye, wait couple years then right eye.

Sorry to hear that, Hopefully you’ll get a fix for them eventually. My own eyesight is declining a bit now too unfortunately….I have to hold things at a distance now to focus. Apart from that still ok though! The no sugar diet will be a tough one (especially given everything in the food shops over there seems sweet….even the vegetables!) At least that’s how I felt during our last trip to Florida.

yes, the lower gear is for a calendar ring.That could be a future issue to look at actually as I don’t thing the ring rotates.

My skill level is still very much in its infancy but I don’t mind at all how people write on here. It can be very easy to misconstrue things so best not to read too much into things rather, just take extract the .detail.
With regards to the ongoing striking issue, although I still haven’t had much time to look at it closely, it would appear that the rack is catching on the gathering pallet during warning….preventing it from moving to the correct tooth for the hour and ultimately resulting in an incorrect number of blows being struck. I think I need to look closely at the gathering pallet and see if there is an option to alter its resting position.

 

[Snorty]

Evening guys, I’m still being hounded by this issue with my rack strike….any thoughts would be much appreciated as I’m struggling to find a solution.
when the movement goes to warning, something is snagging the rack…it appears to be the rack hook catching it as appose to the gathering pallet. I’ve tried adjusting the strike lifting lever to get around the issue but that didn’t seem to work. I’m struggling to see a solution….the video hopefully shows what is happening. It is a screen record and so the issue is shown a few times in case anyone is wondering.

Rack Strike Problems

youtube.com

**edit….after another adjustment to the lifting lever, it seems a little happier….I’ll just have to monitor it me thinks ..

 

[JimmyOz]

Try manually lifting the strike lever to see if it stays in warning till the rack hook clears the rack. If it does then mark on the wheel where this occured and then try to adjust the arm of the lever to that distance.

 

[RJSoftware]

I see now the soldered on brass wire on lever. Nice, allows hands to go backwards.

Not to beat a dead horse but did you get the tail to snail clearance? The last I remember you added extra washers (2) to tighten up clutch action. What concerns me is if the snail got raised too close to rack height and causing rack to hang instead of fall fully to edge. In one of the pics.the rack and snail height (distance from plate) looked way to close. Keep in mind that the rack tail is more prone to snag on hours where snail edge is closer. Also you're not suppose to bend the tail to compromise. Sometimes the tail gets bent from 1 o'clock chop (previously explained).

This might go back to the clutch. I do not know your movement precisely, but many very similar. From what I understand your clutch relies on a pin through arbor and cupped washer for tension.

Other clutches are like a dimple on side of minute cannon. These do not require a cupped washer and hence do not lift snail from back end pressure. The pin is simply to retain minute hand. A domed washer prevents minute hand slop (snug).

If this is not the issue, no problem. Just making sure you understood me.

 

[Snorty]

T

Try manually lifting the strike lever to see if it stays in warning till the rack hook clears the rack. If it does then mark on the wheel where this occured and then try to adjust the arm of the lever to that distance.

Thanks Jimmy, I am starting to think this is where crux of the matter lies.
I’m not always around to hear if the movement is striking the correct number or blows but I’m off for the next couple of days so will monitor it more closely then and give that a try if need be.

 

[Snorty]

I see now the soldered on brass wire on lever. Nice, allows hands to go backwards.

Not to beat a dead horse but did you get the tail to snail clearance? The last I remember you added extra washers (2) to tighten up clutch action. What concerns me is if the snail got raised too close to rack height and causing rack to hang instead of fall fully to edge. In one of the pics.the rack and snail height (distance from plate) looked way to close. Keep in mind that the rack tail is more prone to snag on hours where snail edge is closer. Also you're not suppose to bend the tail to compromise. Sometimes the tail gets bent from 1 o'clock chop (previously explained).

This might go back to the clutch. I do not know your movement precisely, but many very similar. From what I understand your clutch relies on a pin through arbor and cupped washer for tension.

Other clutches are like a dimple on side of minute cannon. These do not require a cupped washer and hence do not lift snail from back end pressure. The pin is simply to retain minute hand. A domed washer prevents minute hand slop (snug).

If this is not the issue, no problem. Just making sure you understood me.

The only thing I can say re the tail / snail is the snail seems to creep forward on its own. There is a gap between the hour and and minute hand (front to back) so nothing to stop it from doing so really. I wonder when the dial is refitted if this will change. It’s so long since the dial was in place I can’t really remember. The additional cup washer is all that has been added so far and that is on the front of the hands. As mentioned previously, the cup washer too a serious bashing during work to the movement and so likely needs replacing at some point.
I’m not convinced now that the tail is snagging the snail although, the snail creeping forward on its own could be contributing to that if it is the case.

 

[shutterbug]

To me, it looks like there is an extra piece on the rack itself that is running into the rack hook toward it's pivot point. I can't tell if that piece is original or not, but have never seen anything like that on a rack before.
Could you remove the rack and take a close pic of it for us? I now think that's where the problem is.

 

[JimmyOz]

Try manually lifting the strike lever to see if it stays in warning till the rack hook clears the rack. If it does then mark on the wheel where this occured and then try to adjust the arm of the lever to that distance.

Above is part 1 , so try it to see if the rack is clear of the hook and still in warning.
Part 2, now you need to get the lifting part of the lever (the one that the pin on the hour wheel lifts the whole lever up with) in the right position. If part 1 worked then you have a mark on the hour wheel.
Looking at the brass spring (which is there so the hands can be moved anticlockwise) it is above the screw, this should be below the screw and need to be bent so that when the pin is lifting the lever it prevents it from moving to the left and the tip of it is on the mark you made on the wheel.
If the above works then I would not move the hands backward as the spring is crude and may bend out of shape and you would be back to square one.

 

[JimmyOz]

Shutt,
The rack would normally have this piece as part of the rack and has been added so it has a stop pin, the rack itself, probably is not original, I think this was a makeshift to get it to work. However there is still 12 rack teeth/gaps left so that it can still strike 12 hours, not ideal though.

 

[Snorty]

To me, it looks like there is an extra piece on the rack itself that is running into the rack hook toward it's pivot point. I can't tell if that piece is original or not, but have never seen anything like that on a rack before.
Could you remove the rack and take a close pic of it for us? I now think that's where the problem is.

I’ve not had a chance to remove the rack but did find a photo of the f it removed. Not that close sorry. The clock has been striking fine all day according to the wife….until I got home!
At 9pm it went to warning and actually struck one blow on the bell….the rack got caught half way through release. I got a couple of photos and from what I could see, I had snagged on the gathering pallet this time.
The gathering pallet arbor has a little front to back play…not much..a few millimetres. I have moved it forward as far as it can go just to see if it helps the GP clear the rack. I’ll report back. I suppose the issue is even if it does start to clear, the chances are it’ll just move back again as the movement runs…






The next shot is during the failed warning….the GP is catching the rack here. I’ve looked and it was the only thing catching it. I think I need to find a way to keep the GP just a little further away from the rack…