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Longcase Restoration Project

Snorty

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Snorty

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To be honest, I’m not even sure I have the cup washer tension right yet either so it may not be the last time it has to come back off!!
 

svenedin

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To be honest, I’m not even sure I have the cup washer tension right yet either so it may not be the last time it has to come back off!!
You just need to move the snail forward enough that you can adjust the mesh of the minute wheel.
 

Snorty

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You just need to move the snail forward enough that you can adjust the mesh of the minute wheel.
Ah, fair do’s.....I shall give it a go tomorrow in that case :)
 

Snorty

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Guys, what do you reckon my best option is here....the bell that came with the movement isn’t original to it, I discovered after that the original bracket base was still attached to the backplate. The pin to stop the bell moving on the replacement doesn’t reach the original hole.
6055F37B-6224-4400-8344-16CDCE124AA1.jpeg


is drilling a new hole a bad idea? My only concern is the escapement pivot is quite close and the original hole....or two by the looks of it aren’t far away either! I potentially enlongate the hole in the new bracket?

4E964AB5-0698-4692-9A41-0C3CB4D053FF.jpeg


One other option would be to remove the pin on the new plate, bond the old plate to the new one....loctite maybe? I’d need a longer fixing screw mind you which might be a slight issue...
 
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Snorty

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Managed to get it on after a fair bit of dremmel work but there is about 1/2 a mm clearance :chuckling:
71C55536-6009-40DA-91BE-668A2796612B.jpeg


I think I might take a little more off the bracket leg to give it some breathing room...
 

Snorty

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Thanks gents, that’s the way I went in the end :thumb:
 

Snorty

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Afternoon all, I have a slight spanner in the works. My hour hand has snapped :emoji_disappointed_relieved: It happened when I was trying to shine it up a bit for blueing.
by the looks of things it has been repaired in the past but it is incredibly thin. The points it has broken at this time, I doubt very much there is the possibility of soldering.
862C1501-25EB-4A6B-8080-8A79FBE5689B.jpeg

17D21154-7B57-41F6-920A-2CEA039E0B8A.jpeg

5F911CA2-754B-4CCE-A46D-F0B38AB22A2E.jpeg

What are my options here….I doubt soldering is possible tbh….I had considered loctite and paint Matt black forgetting about blueing.
Or someone mentioned a company that could laser cut a replacement?
 

Ralph

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I’ve repaired a number of hands, gas welding. It’s not for everyone, but works,, and you can reblue the hand afterwards.

Gas welding lends itself nicely to repairing racks, bell stands, even arbors, …and most other steel components of antique clock movements.

Ralph
 
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Snorty

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I’ve repaired a number of hands, gas welding. It’s not for everyone, but works,, and you can reblue the hand afterwards.

Gas welding lends itself nicely to repairing racks, bell stands, even arbors, …and most other steel components of antique clock movements.

Ralph
Interesting, I do have welding equipment Ralph but sadly it is a mig welder so a tad too heavy duty for this sort of thing!
My concern is the way this has broken, the 3 points are so thin and fragile. I find it slightly bizarre that the minute hand is a fine sturdy construction yet the hour hand is less than 1mm thick….weird!
 

novicetimekeeper

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Interesting, I do have welding equipment Ralph but sadly it is a mig welder so a tad too heavy duty for this sort of thing!
My concern is the way this has broken, the 3 points are so thin and fragile. I find it slightly bizarre that the minute hand is a fine sturdy construction yet the hour hand is less than 1mm thick….weird!
It is usual to have the hour tapered like that in earlier clocks. You don't tough the hour, the minute hand is the one used to change the time so that has to be strong enough to be turned with a finger.
 

Snorty

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It is usual to have the hour tapered like that in earlier clocks. You don't tough the hour, the minute hand is the one used to change the time so that has to be strong enough to be turned with a finger.
Ah ok, that makes sense. I wonder if perhaps it isn’t original in that case. I had a look on eBay to see if there might be a suitable replacement but there seemed to be none with a similar size or shape mounting hole.
 

svenedin

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Afternoon all, I have a slight spanner in the works. My hour hand has snapped :emoji_disappointed_relieved: It happened when I was trying to shine it up a bit for blueing.
by the looks of things it has been repaired in the past but it is incredibly thin. The points it has broken at this time, I doubt very much there is the possibility of soldering.
View attachment 659657

View attachment 659658

View attachment 659659

What are my options here….I doubt soldering is possible tbh….I had considered loctite and paint Matt black forgetting about blueing.
Or someone mentioned a company that could laser cut a replacement?
There are specialists in the UK who can make a new hand for you with the old one as a pattern. I had one made but I do not have contact details now (too long ago).
 
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novicetimekeeper

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If you look up awf restorations Andrew keeps a range of laser cut blanks. He will sell you just the hour hand. You need to hand finish it and blue it.
 
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Snorty

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There are specialists in the UK who can make a new hand for you with the old one as a pattern. I had one made but I do not have contact details now (too long ago).
Sounds like that may be the only feasible option.
 

Snorty

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If you look up awf restorations Andrew keeps a range of laser cut blanks. He will sell you just the hour hand. You need to hand finish it and blue it.
Brilliant, thank you for that, I will get in touch with him……much appreciated.
 

paolo

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Really enjoying read this. I am in a similar position with a similar clock, i have dismantled, cleaned and reassembled the movement. It is sitting on a test stand, ticking away, while I adjust the pendulum.
I am awaiting a repair to one of the pieces of the front works before reassembling that section.
 
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Jim DuBois

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Just a passing observation, but many of the laser-cut hands available stateside are cut in mild steel and are quite easily bent up. I reaffirmed that on a set I had fit up to a tall clock on hand just last week. Just moving the minute hand to the correct time and the hand bent at one of its turns. In years past I had them cut in spring steel and I still hand cut some fair number in spring steel myself. But, my laser fellow has retired, and cutting them in the tough stock by manual processes is not all that much fun.

20210804_105353.jpg
 

novicetimekeeper

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The hands would originally have been wrought iron so I don't see the problem in making them from mild steel, especially given the amount of hand finishing required for earlier hands.
 
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ragobo

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Hi Snorty, just stumbled today with your 6 pages post and read it entirely. I take my hat off to you and all the people that supported you here with counsel. You did a great job!

It so happens a month ago I inherited a long case clock and some things you have experienced got familiar to me :chuckling:

Thank god the movement on my clock had been serviced regularly on the past and just with a light clean and oiling it is running happily again. Just waiting now for the silvering powder to come so I can re-silver the dial, boss, etc again.

Anyway I wanted to contribute with my two cents on reassembling the movement again (in case you already succeeded then ignore the rest of the post). I should divide the process in four parts as follow:


1.- Adjusting the hammer loop

Before messing with the time and calendar wheels you must first adjust the 'hammer loop' and is best to have time and calendar gears removed to do the adjusting comfortably.

1628258161957.png


You must identify the gathering pallet over the rack teeth (see image). This pallet turns counterclockwise and with each turn it skips or advances one tooth of the rack to the right with its shorter end.

Also at the same time with each turn of the pallet the hammer strikes once. Once the gathering pallet has 'skipped' all the rack teeth it stops itself by hitting on the 'stop pin' with its large end.

You should adjust the striking wheel train so that when the gathering pallet is at rest on the stop pin the hammer has just stroked and is no more lifted or engaged by the striking wheel. To do that you should take off the secure taper pins of the movement and carefully lift a bit the front plate to disengage the strike train wheels and reassemble them. It's time consuming and a lot of patience is needed.

Actually the wheel in need to reassemble in relation to the others would be the striking wheel. That is the one with many pins attached equally spaced to its side that engage the hammer with each pin as it turns.

Once this wheel is reassembled and everything again in place you should check for a complete turn of the gathering pallet. If all is correct when it has done a complete turn and reaches its rest position on the stop pin the hammer must have just stroke once and should not already being lifted again for the next stroke (that would mean adjusting again).

A last thing to check: when this has been adjusted and with the gathering pallet resting on the stop pin you must locate the warning wheel. This is the next wheel on the striking train after the striking wheel and has one pin attached to its side.

You must verify that the pin is not to be seen through the 'little window' that opens on the front plate (see image)

1628260301526.png


If this is correct you could secure the movement with its taper pins again :)



2.- Adjusting the minute hand wheel

Next thing should be adjusting the minute hand wheel. In order to do that you should put in its place only the minute hand wheel (the one that almost beat you) and the 'trigger wheel'. Leave removed all other time and calendar wheel / parts.

1628261586728.png

Lift a bit the minute hand wheel so that it doesn't engage with the trigger wheel and then turn that last wheel counterclockwise till the 'lever trigger' just releases the lever itself (see image).

Now without moving the trigger wheel turn the minute hand wheel either way so that its square ending (where the minute hand rests) is positioned so that when the minute hand is attached to it, it would point straight up at twelve o'clock. You may check with the minute hand but try no to move the trigger wheel meanwhile.

Once the minute hand wheel is correctly positioned you could push it down to its place so that it engages with the trigger wheel...minute hand wheel should be adjusted now :thumb:


3.- Adjusting the hour hand wheel

Next (and trying still not to move a bit the minute hand and trigger wheels) is time put in place the minute hand wheel holder (with its two screws) and the hour hand wheel. Before engaging it make sure to position it so that the hour hand points straight up at 12 o'clock (you could check with the hour hand attached). The hour hand wheel is adjusted now :)

Edit: I'm assuming here that the snail is correctly positioned in relation to the hour hand wheel. Once the hour hand wheel has been positioned at 12 o'clock the shorter slope of the snail should be facing downwards more or less at 6 o'clock.



4.- Adjusting the calendar wheel

Finally the calendar wheel could be mounted on its proper position which is somehow vague. Taking into account that everything is set at 12 a.m. the calendar wheel lever should point at 5 o'clock so to speak. That last adjustment would need to be checked once the front of the clock is in place.



Ok, there were initially my two cents but somehow I got caught up and ended with two hundred cents :chuckling:

Hope it helps!
 
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Snorty

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Really enjoying read this. I am in a similar position with a similar clock, i have dismantled, cleaned and reassembled the movement. It is sitting on a test stand, ticking away, while I adjust the pendulum.
I am awaiting a repair to one of the pieces of the front works before reassembling that section.
I’m glad you have enjoyed the thread so far! I’m sure it probably isn’t finished yet either lol…hope it will help others as it has been a steep learning curve for me :)
 

Snorty

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Just a passing observation, but many of the laser-cut hands available stateside are cut in mild steel and are quite easily bent up. I reaffirmed that on a set I had fit up to a tall clock on hand just last week. Just moving the minute hand to the correct time and the hand bent at one of its turns. In years past I had them cut in spring steel and I still hand cut some fair number in spring steel myself. But, my laser fellow has retired, and cutting them in the tough stock by manual processes is not all that much fun.

View attachment 666005
The hands would originally have been wrought iron so I don't see the problem in making them from mild steel, especially given the amount of hand finishing required for earlier hands.
Thanks guys, I spoke with Andrew Firth a few weeks ago and I’m sending him the hand to see what can be done. Just not time to get it posted yet but hopefully it’ll be on its way next week :thumb:
 

Snorty

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Hi Snorty, just stumbled today with your 6 pages post and read it entirely. I take my hat off to you and all the people that supported you here with counsel. You did a great job!
Hi Ragobo, thank you so much for the comments! The guys here have been amazing…a wealth of knowledge and I couldn’t have done it without them…hats definitely off!

I’ve sat my project to the side temporarily as I have a few other things to get on with but I shall be back on the case with it in the coming months.Thank you very much for the info in your post too….superb! I still haven’t got the movement on to test but I did get the strike side set back up (I hope successfully!)Having that information in this thread will be of huge help in the future though for further projects and I have no doubt, to help others too.
my next step , re-gutting aside is re-slivering. The wax isn’t too bad other than a small crack so I may try and tidy that & retain the rest. I shall post in it when I begin! Hope yours goes well:emoji_ok_hand::emoji_slight_smile:
 

Mike Phelan

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Interesting to see the arrangement on the minute wheel and warning lever to allow the hands to be turned backwards. Most just have a pin to lift the fixed warning lever.
 
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Snorty

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I’ve not done much with this one through the summer but as the colder weather is approaching, I am getting going on it again!
The thing that has been holding me back was a lack of work area to begin re-gutting etc. However, today I spent a few hours chucking this ‘thing’ together :chuckling:
Please feel free to tell that is hopeless for various reasons!
I know it’s not the best, but I’ll bolt it to the garage bench and hopefully, it’ll allow access to the front & rear of the movement. Please ignore the state of the garage….it is usually not as bad as that :excited:

5C68BFFC-C2CB-47FC-8AA6-BBE0423B0B9A.jpeg
 

novicetimekeeper

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It only needs to be tall enough to allow for the pendulum, you don't need the full height for the weights to run down for a test stand. It does need to be very rigid though and I'm not sure that will be. You could add some triangles.
 

Snorty

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Ah ok, I didn’t know it could be shorter. I just assumed that for purposes of re-gutting, it would need to be full height. Not to worry, I’ll either chop it down or just leave as is. I know what you mean re rigidity….that was a concern I had too. I’m sure I can stiffen it up fairly easily though as I have another 2 full height posts I can chop up to suit.
 

Snorty

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Looks good that…… although I usually have loads of scrap bits of wood kicking about, I have next to nothing just now!
 

Snorty

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That looks great! You have given me an idea actually, if I only need height for the pendulum, I might be able to create a timber add on to my work bench. Means my efforts today will have been a complete waste of time but hey ho :)
 

paolo

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That looks great! You have given me an idea actually, if I only need height for the pendulum, I might be able to create a timber add on to my work bench. Means my efforts today will have been a complete waste of time but hey ho :)
Snorty, depending where you are, it's now surplus.
 

Snorty

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Snorty, depending where you are, it's now surplus.
Ah paolo, that is a kind offer…sadly I think we’ll be miles apart. I’m just west of Edinburgh!
 

Snorty

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Yip….pretty much at the bottom of the road! :chuckling:

Ah, not to worry :)
 

JimmyOz

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In Australia that is 'Just down the road' :)
 

Snorty

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True Jimmy….you guys definitely think differently about a few hundred miles! :chuckling:
 

JimmyOz

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I was born in Edinburgh (left 1980), back then a trip to Glasgow was to far, now I do that to go shopping.
 

Snorty

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At least you left before the city council ruined the place…..I moved out west a bit 8 years ago….thankfully I only work there now.
 

Snorty

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Thanks guys, these have given me a few ideas :)
 

Snorty

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Folks, what are your opinions on this…..I have just reattached the weights. The strike side went on and is ready for winding, the time side as you can see from the video is a little odd. When the weight is attached, it is pulling the escapement wheel round and that is even before it has been wound.
I have tried to demonstrate in this video….the weight is not attached but I am placing tension on the gut line and then the time side winding barrel directly.
I have a feeling the movement did this prior to the strip and clean so unlikely to have been caused by me!
 

novicetimekeeper

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Why is the pendulum not fitted? You should fit the pendulum before the weight.
 
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Snorty

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Why is the pendulum not fitted? You should fit the pendulum before the weight.
From what I had read it was supposed to be done the other way around…..seems I have been mislead…
 

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