longcase gathering pallet

Discussion in 'Clock Repair' started by 0132joshua, Jun 12, 2018.

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  1. 0132joshua

    0132joshua Registered User

    Dec 24, 2015
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    hi, missing a gathering pallet, i have purchased a nice quality blank with tail, the vendor , very helpfully informed me i will have to adapt to a tiny gathering pallet with no tail, a difficault task, as the gap between rack and gathering pallet arbour is only about 1mm, any one out there know where to get a replacement of the correct type, as to save work. Not sure of the date of the clock, maker is fab robins, london, any info would be great, cheers

    20180611_225553 (1).jpg 20180611_225710 (1) (1).jpg
     
  2. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User

    Jul 26, 2015
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    The only blanks I have seen for sale are as you describe, I have a couple of longcase clocks with miniscule gathering pallets, I think those you have to make from scratch.
     
  3. 0132joshua

    0132joshua Registered User

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    hi, thats what i was thinking, may come across a used example, one can hope, cheers
     
  4. wow

    wow Registered User
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    Joshua, I don’t think you will find such a gathering pallet new anywhere. You are going to have to do a lot of work on it anyway to get it restored. That repair job on the tooth replacement in your second photo must be done right. You will need to make a gathering pallet unless someone here offers one from their bone pile, which is not likely. It looks like one that will need to be disassembled and each part restored. Lots of work, but a challenge on a very old movement. What is the case like?
     
  5. shutterbug

    shutterbug Moderator
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    It appears that your gathering pallet will have two jobs. One is to lift the count lever while the pallet gathers a tooth, then drop it again to hold it there for the next revolution.
     
  6. 0132joshua

    0132joshua Registered User

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    i think the case is later and also been carved to oblivion. a lot of work ahead. thanks for info
     
  7. 0132joshua

    0132joshua Registered User

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    great info, i wonder if anyone has a photo of the pallet rq, many thanks
     
  8. 0132joshua

    0132joshua Registered User

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    anyone any idea of its date, cheers
     
  9. Uhralt

    Uhralt Registered User
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    The movement looks similar to one I have in a Scottish longcase clock, ca. 1780. Others will probably be able to give you a more educated guess, based on details like the pillars. Do you have a picture of the case?

    Uhralt
     
  10. Ralph

    Ralph Registered User
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    Why do you say that?

    Ralph
     
  11. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User

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    That's interesting, because my one with the tiny pallet just relies on the shape of the teeth so the rack hook moves up a tooth at a time.
     
  12. shimmystep

    shimmystep Registered User

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    Agree with Will there, much work to do.
    Will, that looks like a paint spill as opposed to a tooth replacement :)

    You'll have to make a new gathering pallet, with the tail, or have one made. The pin on the rack shaft (as it moves forward by the teeth being gathered) moves that lever, the one with paint on it, upward so moving the stop lever inside the plates in the path of the pin on S4 wheel by the looks.

    Making one of these pallets, is not too tricky. I personally, wouldn't recommend using one a blank for this, given they come with a tail which is not necessary here. making a blank from a piece of steel with a hole, and some filing will get you there!
     
  13. 0132joshua

    0132joshua Registered User

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    really good info from all concerned, another mystery, just below the lifting piece post, top right, is another post with a drilled hole, also near the gathering pallet arbour are two small threaded holes and a spearhead marking from something that may have once been there, could the post, drillings and markings be from a repeater device.
     
  14. 0132joshua

    0132joshua Registered User

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    hi, a few pics re poss date, 5 pillar movement. the case not worth looking at. cheers

    20180612_222812 (1).jpg 20180612_222743.jpg 20180612_222749.jpg 20180612_222753.jpg 20180612_222826.jpg
     
  15. Uhralt

    Uhralt Registered User
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    The movement looks pretty much like mine. Also the hands are period for the around 1780 time frame. By the way, I don't intend to send you a check or cash!

    Uhralt
     
  16. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User

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    shallow domed collets, finned and knopped pillars, rooted half hour markers, 1/8 hour markers, twin cherub spandrels (though large crown), all suggest an early clock. Can we see a signature? If it is a Southern or London clock these would suggest an earlier date than a more Northern clock.
     
  17. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User

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    Barder dates the spandrels as 1715-30, I associate them more with provincial clocks, I see them a lot more on Northern clocks. The hands look more 1730s or so, but a fairly long lived style I think, a signature would really help.
     
  18. Ralph

    Ralph Registered User
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    #18 Ralph, Jun 12, 2018
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 12, 2018
    I don't believe the gathering pallet should have a tail, otherwise I agree with your description of the operation.

    If the 0132 joshua has a replacement pallet with a tail, just cut the tail off and you are halfway there.

    Ralph
     
  19. TEACLOCKS

    TEACLOCKS Registered User
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  20. Hudson

    Hudson Registered User
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    The photo of your clock movement showing the rack so close to the gathering pallet arbor made me think of a Swedish Mora clock movement. Although quite a different movement, these pictures show one way this was accomplished a long time ago. So maybe something like this, perhaps not so crude, would gather your rack?

    This one appears to be a thin piece of steel wrapped around the square shaft. I have several of these movements that are made this way.

    IMG_1346.jpg IMG_1347.jpg IMG_1348.jpg IMG_1349.jpg
     
  21. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User

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  22. shutterbug

    shutterbug Moderator
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    Something like that might work. Looking at your photos again, it appears that the GP will force the rack upward and the tooth design will just slide the hook over the teeth.
     
  23. 0132joshua

    0132joshua Registered User

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    fab robins london

    20180613_182033.jpg
     
  24. 0132joshua

    0132joshua Registered User

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    great stuff, i now have some idea, cheers
     
  25. 0132joshua

    0132joshua Registered User

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  26. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User

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    Fabian then.

    Very little is known about him according to Loomes. Late 17th century longcase and bracket clocks are known, but no records at the clockmakers company. There is, apparently, a Fabian Robins buried at Stepney 24th Jan 1723, may be him. I would guess this to be after 1700, so one of his later works.
     
  27. 0132joshua

    0132joshua Registered User

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    cheers, great bit of info, history.
     
  28. shimmystep

    shimmystep Registered User

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    That was a typo Ralph, was meant to say without the tail! Which is why I suggested not bothering to use one of the blanks! Sorry for confusion :)
     
  29. kinsler33

    kinsler33 Registered User

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    #29 kinsler33, Jun 14, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2018
    I had a similar problem with an ancient long-case clock whose sheet-iron dial says Philip Franck [ ] [ ] of New Berlin, which is presumably in the US.and may be somewhere around here In Ohio.

    So, there was no gathering pallet. I made several attempts, but if you don't know the proper dimensions it's rather tough. Said gathering pallet mounts on a squared-off arbor.

    So what I finally did was invent one that might actually work, even if it didn't look particularly authentic. I use KWM bushings, and I had some 2mm ID specimens. They take the IV reamer (#4), but I didn't use it as a bushing. I found a piece of piano wire, quite thin but stiff enough to move the rack, and made a loop in it that fit tight over the OD of the bushing. I applied a bit of Kester soldering paste, the stuff that has rotted out radio chassis for 75 years but is okay if you wash it off, and soldered the loop to the periphery of the bushing with my usual radio solder.

    I cut off the piano wire about an inch from the bushing and bent it into an L shape that would engage the rack teeth after the bushing was tapped onto the square arbor. It took a good deal of bending, etc, until I got this ersatz gathering pallet to advance the rack only one tooth at a time (it'll do two if it's too deep, and if it's too shallow it won't advance the rack sufficiently for the rack hook to fall over the tooth.But it's not a big deal because you can always bend the wire to adjust the depth, which you can't do with a conventional gathering pallet.

    I think the springiness of the piano wire pallet may help its performance, and the bogus pallet worked well for several weeks. And it would have continued to do so for many years had I not found the original gathering pallet, the wrapped-around kind shown in post #20, I think.

    It was with mixed emotions that I replaced my hand-crafted gathering pallet with the one from 200 years ago, especially because the working edge of that old pallet was torn up. But I stoned it down and polished it, and it's hanging onto its arbor with the aid of a drop of Ye Olde Colonial Blue Loctite.

    M Kinsler
     
  30. 0132joshua

    0132joshua Registered User

    Dec 24, 2015
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    hi, we think alike, i hve found a pallet from a 20th century haller movement, which looks like it can be reinvented, shame i cant find a original, but i can live with my reinvented job, at least it should work, cheers
     

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