Longcase brass dial ca. 1770 with painted center

[Rattenborough]

I was offered an eight day longcase clock made by Thomas Husband of Hull /Yorkshire (Loomes c.1760 - d.1812). Unlike usual, the center of the dial is completly painted. The scene shows a fleet in front of a burning fortress, the soldier in the foreground proudly pointing to a ship obviously sunk by his cannon. Perhaps this is a later added painting, but at least to me it does not look like it. Are you aware of similar brass dial clocks with painted centres? As painted (white) dials started around this time, this may be a kind of example for the transition that took place from 1770 onwards. And do you have an idea to which specific battle the painting may refer?

 

[Jezster18]

I was offered an eight day longcase clock made by Thomas Husband of Hull /Yorkshire (Loomes c.1760 - d.1812). Unlike usual, the center of the dial is completly painted. The scene shows a fleet in front of a burning fortress, the soldier in the foreground proudly pointing to a ship obviously sunk by his cannon. Perhaps this is a later added painting, but at least to me it does not look like it. Are you aware of similar brass dial clocks with painted centres? As painted (white) dials started around this time, this may be a kind of example for the transition that took place from 1770 onwards. And do you have an idea to which specific battle the painting may refer?

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Wow what a nice clock, I think you've hit the nail on the head, in it being transitional from brass dial to painted. I wonder if in the background it is showing the Hull Fortifications? I just watched a archaeological program on the TV where they showed you how it used to be bristling with cannons.
A very nice Pagoda top case you have with it as well, you have a clock & oil painting all in one.
We think it looks very nice & it all looks like it belongs to each other, the arch to the dial with the ship in really lifts the dial.
I've used a bit of spit on cotton buds in the past to gently clean on painted dials, as it's how they used to clean oil paintings, & then after the dirt has lifted, I've used slightly damp cotton buds dipped in water & squeeze the excess out to go over again & then used renaissence micro crystaline wax as used by museums & tested a small area on the paint & used cotton pads to gently apply a thin coat with no hard pressure, let it dry & then used cotton pads like women use for cleaning make up off to gently buff it up. I've never had any adverse effects & the wax protects the paint, giving a soft sheen. Always test a very small area first though if you try it.

 

[Mike Phelan]

Nice clock, and a very interesting dial indeed. Siege of Hull 1642?

 

[jmclaugh]

Now that's different as while you see then with a painted arch I don't recall seeing one with a painted centre like that before. There's a clock by him shown in Loomes' book White Dial Clocks that has an almost identical case except it's mahogany veneer with a typical white painted dial dated from c 1790.

I can't help with what the naval scenes refer to but you could try contacting the Hull Maritime Museum.
Here's a similar brass dial clock by him. Longcase clock by Thomas Husband of Hull – Laurel Bank Antiques
Google also shows others.

 

[gmorse]

Hi Mike,

Siege of Hull 1642?

I can't find any reference to a naval action during the Civil War seige, and the chap in the picture is dressed in 18th century clothes, not mid-17th century.

The painting of the ship in the arch is more competently handled than that in the dial centre, clearly by a different hand.

Regards,

Graham

 

[Rattenborough]

Hi Mike,


I can't find any reference to a naval action during the Civil War seige, and the chap in the picture is dressed in 18th century clothes, not mid-17th century.

The painting of the ship in the arch is more competently handled than that in the dial centre, clearly by a different hand.

Regards,

Graham

Thank you all for your helpful insights and comments. Jezster18 that sounds like a very effective method for cleaning and preserving paintings, and maybe one day I will be courageous enough to apply it. The whole dial looks quite cleaned, especially the brass plate, I do not know if it will ever get some patina again in my lifetime... Your asumption that the painting shows the Hull fortification bristling with cannons seems very accurate. jmclaugh Thanks for the tip, Hull Maritime Museum will be contacted. gmorse You are right that the arch painting seems to be done by a different painter. It is a "rocking" ship of the type where not the separated ship but the whole half circle plate is moving. Maybe this was the original setting - classical brass dial with painted rocking ship arch (like the one jmclaugh googled, but without calendar dial) - and then the owner asked for a slightly more fashionable painted dial that then was done by another painter. Be that as it may, I could not find a single picture of a brass dial with a fully painted centre so far - if you find one let me know!

 

[Jezster18]

Thank you all for your helpful insights and comments. Jezster18 that sounds like a very effective method for cleaning and preserving paintings, and maybe one day I will be courageous enough to apply it. The whole dial looks quite cleaned, especially the brass plate, I do not know if it will ever get some patina again in my lifetime... Your asumption that the painting shows the Hull fortification bristling with cannons seems very accurate. jmclaugh Thanks for the tip, Hull Maritime Museum will be contacted. gmorse You are right that the arch painting seems to be done by a different painter. It is a "rocking" ship of the type where not the separated ship but the whole half circle plate is moving. Maybe this was the original setting - classical brass dial with painted rocking ship arch (like the one jmclaugh googled, but without calendar dial) - and then the owner asked for a slightly more fashionable painted dial that then was done by another painter. Be that as it may, I could not find a single picture of a brass dial with a fully painted centre so far - if you find one let me know!

Hi, I've looked everywhere & it seems at this moment your clock is the only one painted this way, maybe it was requested by the original buyer someone with a military, sea fairing background, It is definitely a quality clock & it must have been fate for you to own it & be it's conservator, it's a good job that you didn't stop after buying number 3. I hope your partner likes it, it's a definite talking point & a rarity, i like the early longcases generally, & I can honestly say well done.

 

[Mike Phelan]

Hi Mike,


I can't find any reference to a naval action during the Civil War seige, and the chap in the picture is dressed in 18th century clothes, not mid-17th century.


Regards,

Graham

Thanks, Graham

 

[Rattenborough]

Ok, so finally I found one other example of a brass dial clock with painted centre!

It is covered in Brian Loomes´ "Grandfather clocks and their cases" p.158/159, see photo. It is a clock dating from 1780 and made by John Lees of Middleton (Manchester), North West of England, so not that far from Hull and quite the same period as my clock. Loomes comes to a similiar conclusion as we did regarding a possible transitional feature from brass to painted dials and raises an interesting question on plain polished centres:

"Perhaps this is a sign that clockmakers who still used the traditional brass dial after the introduction of the japanned dial were attempting to give their customers the best of both worlds. A dial centre painted with a central scene was an unusual item, even on japanned dials, and on brass dials is something very seldom seen. The survival of this painted centre brings to mind the considerable number of north-western brass-dial clocks (especially from the Manchester area) where the dial centre is plain polished brass. Were these perhaps originally painted and then the paintings scraped clean once they became shabby with wear?"

 

[MQ32shooter]

I don’t know anything about your new purchase, but it’s an absolutely beautiful piece! Congrats

 

[Rattenborough]

Thank you!