Long case Clock by John Dison of St Ives

Discussion in 'General Clock Discussions' started by JPN567, Dec 5, 2018.

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  1. JPN567

    JPN567 Registered User

    Nov 29, 2018
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    Does anyone have any information or knowledge of other clocks by this maker?

    IMG_0289.jpg IMG_0294.jpg IMG_0299.jpg IMG_0286.jpg IMG_0301.jpg
     
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  2. bruce linde

    bruce linde Technical Admin
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    did you search past issues of the bulletin? (go to the main site (nawcc.org), past issues, and look for a sentence in the middle of the page that says 'registered users may search previous issues' (or something to that effect))

    lovely clock.
     
  3. JTD

    JTD Registered User
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    Baillie lists John Dison (as on your clock, not Dyson as in your heading) as working in St. Ives around 1770-72.

    If you google 'John Dison St Ives clock' you can see several other examples of clocks by this maker.

    JTD
     
  4. novicetimekeeper

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    Would be useful to see the movement. The automaton is interesting, the ship in the foreground flies the red ensign which at this time is the ensign of the Red Squadron, one of the three squadrons of the Royal Navy. No idea what the one in the distance is supposed to be. Ensigns were a bit of a problem up until 1864 when it was resolved that the Royal Navy would fly the White, the Merchant navy would fly the Red, and the Blue would cover a variety of official vessels.

    Not sure where this particular London packet ran, they were ships on regular routes that carried mail and passengers.
     
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  5. Les harland

    Les harland Registered User

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    Your picture shows Dyson spelt with a i
    Loomes Watchmakers and Clockmakers of the World lists:-
    Dison John St Ives Huntingdonshire 1769 when took an apprentice -pre 1772 numbered some clocks e.g 267
     
  6. THTanner

    THTanner Registered User
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    It is quite common on paintings of ships to have the ensigns and the top mast burgies flying in the wrong direction. It is great to see them all displayed correctly on this clock.

    It appears that a Swiss ship is in the background to the right ?
     
  7. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User
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    Did the Swiss ever have any ships? Plenty of soldiers, they provided so many mercenaries around the World they ended up on opposing sides in battle, but I don't recall them having a navy. They do have a few lakes.
     
  8. zedric

    zedric Registered User

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    They won the America's cup, but that was a boat not a ship, and most of the crew were from New Zealand...
     
  9. Les harland

    Les harland Registered User

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    I do not think the ship in the background is Swiss
    On the Swiss flage the red background goes all round the white cross, it does not in the picture
    It could be Maltese or Danish
     
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  10. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User
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    It's more likely the artist just liked the colour.
     
  11. THTanner

    THTanner Registered User
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    Hence my question. - I was looking for a message in the artwork. The ship to the left has no flag on the stern possibly indicating a pirate ship or a ship of unknown origin, which along with the British ship are chasing the Swiss time makers?

    Anyway - great clock.
     
  12. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User
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    The ship to the left is coming towards us, or at least is pointing our way, the sails backed. It seems likely the painter was no sailor. (I can tell you from experience that furling sails that have backed is extremely hard work and tedious, if this was really what the artist saw there must have been some justification for it that escapes me.)
     
  13. THTanner

    THTanner Registered User
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    I thought that at first too - but if you enlarge it a lot you will see that you are looking at the transom and the sails are full for travel in the same direction as the British ship.
     
  14. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User
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    No definitely the bow, you can see the yards on the jib boom for the water sails. I think you are confusing the shape at the bow, it was much different in the 18th century. If you look at the design of the Grand Turk which is a replica ship (her original name) you will see what I mean.

    Étoile du Roy - Wikipedia
     
  15. THTanner

    THTanner Registered User
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    Good perspective - I see what you are showing. It would be great if the OP could move the British ship a bit clockwise - I think perhaps there is a flag on the stern?
     
  16. JPN567

    JPN567 Registered User

    Nov 29, 2018
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    There seems to much interest in the Automaton and the ships bur not much about the clock. Hopefully the attached pictures of the movement may help.

    2018-12-07 10.32.11-1.jpg 2018-12-07 10.32.26.jpg 2018-12-07 10.32.33.jpg 2018-12-07 10.32.55-2.jpg
     
  17. JPN567

    JPN567 Registered User

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    Does This Help?

    2018-12-07 10.51.19.jpg
     
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  18. novicetimekeeper

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    They both appear to be British, with no explanation for why one is aback.
     
  19. JTD

    JTD Registered User
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    For the sake of future research, I wonder if a moderator could correct the spelling mistake (Dyson) in the heading. It would be a shame if the thread were lost for those who come after us.

    JTD
     
  20. novicetimekeeper

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  21. JPN567

    JPN567 Registered User

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    Thanks JTD my mistake when starting the thread. Hopefully it can be corrected,
     
  22. JPN567

    JPN567 Registered User

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    Thanks Moderator
     
  23. Les harland

    Les harland Registered User

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    The title London Paquet suggests that one or both of ships in the foreground is a Packet boat
    According to Wikipedia packet boats were medium sized boats designed to carry domestic mail, passengers and freight in European countries and their colonies often providing a regular scheduled service
    I think the picture shows two such ships passing
     
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  24. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User
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    Yes, as I said earlier, at the time of the picture ensigns were in a bit of a muddle. I agree the artist intended this to be two ships passing each other, the artist having no knowledge of sailing.
     
  25. Les harland

    Les harland Registered User

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    Post No 17 gives a clearer idea of where the wind was coming from and how the sails were set
    I was saying what type of ship they were and why you would get two almost identical ships passing in oposite directions
     

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