London England Watchmaker?

[Shanwick777]

In for repair and requiring a new balance staff and mainspring.
Would anyone have any knowledge of who the maker might be?
I believe Given Bros might only be the retailer.
On the mainplate is inscribed, "Given Bros. 28 Gracechurch Street, London EC.
Any information would be greatly appreciated.

 

[gmorse]

Hi Shanwick777, and welcome to the Forum,

"Given Brothers" was certainly the retailer, and without any identifying stamps on the dial side of the pillar plate, the frame maker will remain unknown. A picture of the balance cock might give a clue to the area where it was made, but it won't be London. Even if you did discover the makers, you won't be able to source any interchangeable parts for it; everything was made to fit, so that's what you'll have to do with the staff, and get as close as you can with the mainspring.

I should think it dates from the end of the 19th century, but if the case is silver or gold, there should be hallmarks to confirm this.

Regards,

Graham

 

[MartyR]

Welcome to the board, Shanwick

It's worth recording that 31 Gracechurch Street was the address of John Frodsham, one of the famous Frodsham family, in the second quarter of the 19th century and a well reputed watchmaker in his day.

The street is in the City of London, not far from London Bridge, and probably when your watch was made a good quality retail centre.

 

[PapaLouies]

Are not two dial feet typically Swiss?

Regards,

PL

 

[Lychnobius]

If a new member (or rather an old one just re-born) may butt in: -

One clue I have often found helpful in determining whether a movement is Swiss or English is the way the dial is finished; Swiss dials tend to have a glossy surface whereas English ones are matt.

On the movement itself, the tiny motion-wheels look Swiss, but other details - notably the blued screws, the style of the engraved inscription, and above all the side-lever - appear English. Could this have been a Swiss ébauche which was finished over here (probably in or near Liverpool), using an English escapement?

Oliver Mundy.

 

[gmorse]

Hi Oliver,

Welcome back to the MB; I've seen your name mentioned here several times, always with appreciative comments! We certainly need all the expertise we can get here with English watches, but the relatively small band of enthusiasts is growing gradually.

I take your point about the motion-work, which is in part why I asked the OP about the balance cock. I also notice that the banking pins are in eccentric plugs, reminiscent of LWC movements.

Regards,

Graham

 

[Shanwick777]

Thank you all for your informative replies. It's a lever escapement with pointed tooth escape wheel as best I can judge. As for the dial, there were originally three dial feet, and I now notice that the dial foot behind the 10-11 o'clock position has been carefully filed down flush for some reason or other. That being said, the front plate has access holes for all three dial feet. The dial is enamel semi-gloss at best with the inscriptions; Given Bros London with 28694 over the number 1000. Hopefully these pictures may give further clues to this lovely timepiece. I shall post some pics of the finished watch in the future.

 

[gmorse]

Hi Shanwick,

The date letter in the case is 1897, Chester, and the two maker's marks are odd. The "HW" could be for Henry Williamson, whose company made both movements and cases, and this may account for Oliver's observation about the motion work, since Williamson did own a Swiss factory, Buren. Otherwise it appears to be very English.

The other mark, "W.S" could be for William Sexton in Coventry, but why there are two marks here is unclear. If he just made the pendant, (a common practice), his mark would be on that, not in the case itself.

Regards,

Graham

 

[Shanwick777]

Last but not least, I do show markings on either side of the pendant.
What appears to be a Royal crown mark and the number 18 beside it,
while on the other side, what appears to be the letters C J.

Best regards,

Steve Ryan