Locks and Drops - Manual Checks vs Mounted in Clock

Discussion in '400-Day & Atmos' started by KurtinSA, Sep 3, 2018.

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  1. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
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    Nov 24, 2014
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    Working on a Schatz 53 Coach clock. In this one, there is a bridge that holds the saddle as well as the rear plate pivot hole for the anchor. So, the escapement has to be adjusted by moving the plate around. This clock also has fixed pallets. So, it's really all about moving the bridge around. Not my strongest suit, but I think I got the locks and drops to something that worked while manipulating the anchor pin with my finger.

    I assembled the clock, set the beat, and began watching the escapement. Now the entrance pallet is locking somehow, either by hitting the end of the tooth on the escape wheel, or digging into the backside of the tooth and binding with the tooth on the exit pallet.

    So why does that happen? It must have something to do with the fork position. I'm still fiddling with the fork position...can't figure out much until I can get it to run a bit. Currently, the fork is quite a bit lower than in the repair guide...unit #5E.

    Can someone explain what's going on?

    Thanks...Kurt
     
  2. victor miranda

    victor miranda Registered User

    Jan 13, 2017
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    from that read...
    lower the verge a little.
    for what you describe I loosen the right side screw and tap the rt side down a little.

    it will not take much tapping to get where you need to be.
    you are pretty close to correct as it is.

    on at least one clock I have, I moved the verge a little to the right
    because the aforementioned down move caused the exit pallet to hit the escape.
    I think that escape wheel was cut a bit small, so I do not expect you to have that problem.

    victor
     
  3. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
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    Nov 24, 2014
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    Thanks for the input, Victor. The anchor pivot can only be moved up or down, but each side can be moved independent of each other. I just don't understand why it works when I use my finger but locks when the fork is actuating the anchor pin.

    Kurt
     
  4. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
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    Nov 24, 2014
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    I re-evaluated the locks and drops and per the table in the repair guide, I needed to lower the pivot hole. I did that a few times and seems to be working now...at least not locking up while all assembled. Attempted to set the beat again and will see if the clock will run.

    Ooops...wrote too soon. Clock stopped within 5 minutes. Not sure what the issue is...guess I'll have to play with fork position.

    Kurt
     
  5. victor miranda

    victor miranda Registered User

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    Hi Kurt,

    ok lower the pivot hole... that is the idea no matter how it is worded.

    by however much you lowered it to get 5 minutes of run, lower it about that again.
    I expect it was a small amount , in that the entry pallet should be close to catching the backside
    from that point I lower it a wee little more because the clocks seem to run better there.

    oil the pallets... after that, my recent track record is 6 run well and one will not.

    you are in the area where most run.

    ETA: your finger has a lot more power than the suspension spring
    and your escape wheel may not be precisely the same from tooth to tooth.

    victor
     
  6. Burkhard Rasch

    Burkhard Rasch Registered User
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    also with Your finger the anchor shaft is always pressed down to the bottom edge of the bearing,while in the "natural" action the anchor shaft can make use of that little play that is in all bearings. PS:use the quick pendulum for testing.
    Burkhard
     
  7. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
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    Nov 24, 2014
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    I think (hope?) have found an anchor adjustment that gives me good locks and drops. With fixed pallets, there's really only so much I can do. I've found that with the supporting bridge at the extreme upward position, I get anchor-EW lock; similarly with the bridge at the extreme downward position, the anchor-EW locks. I've moved the bridge slightly higher and I like what I see...within my experience. Still can't get the clock to run more than 5 minutes. Some serious power issues I guess.

    Question...why does the EW wheel just "fly" over the impulse face on the exit pallet? The entrance pallet and EW action seems fairly normal. But on the exit side, once the tooth clears the break on the pallet, it just immediately drops off. It doesn't spend any time, at least similar to the other side, of impulsing the anchor correctly. Why is that happening?

    Kurt
     
  8. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
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    Looks like the issue was that the fork was too low. I had moved it way down. I've since moved it back up, still a little lower than the repair guide. It's behaving "normally" in terms of teeth on impulse faces. Will have to see if the clock will run. I'm really running out of ideas.

    Kurt
     
  9. victor miranda

    victor miranda Registered User

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    Kurt,

    I have re-read your post...
    I think you have stated, your escape wheel tooth (EWT) strikes the locks
    ( I am assuming both entry and exit pallets)
    and that on the exit side the EWT spends almost no time crossing the impulse face.
    the entry pallet is ok? nm you said it seems normal.

    two things spring to my mind...
    the hard to check one is that someone re-faced the exit pallet.
    to a less than desirable angle.

    the next one is kinda well....obvious. the anchor is not resisting the impulse...
    because it is obvious. off hand the best guess I have is that the pendulum is in 'spin'
    and so the EW may or may not be giving an impulse. however it is un-even
    and that implies that the beat and placement of the verge are not where you'd like them.

    move the pivot hole for the verge over to the left a little is what I'd try...

    victor
     
  10. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
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    As I said in the previous post, I moved the fork up to a point closer to the repair guide and now the EW teeth seem to properly impulse the anchor...no "flying" over the impulse face.

    The verge doesn't move side-to-side...I had thought of that, but it only moves up and down.

    I spent more time setting the beat, made sure the clock was fully wound, and it has been running now for 30-45 minutes. About 270 deg of rotation with about 25 deg of over swing each direction.

    I sure wish I knew what I did right! :banghead:

    Kurt
     
  11. victor miranda

    victor miranda Registered User

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    :-D
    I think you moved the verge pivot slightly to the left...

    kidding aside, you are onto one of the reasons the 400 day clock is considered fussy.

    victor
     
  12. MartinM

    MartinM Registered User

    Jun 24, 2011
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    My best attack plan on this clock begins with setting the fork one fork's width away from the upper block and then loosening the left suspension bracket screw and positioning that side of the bracket at its lowest possible place. Wind the clock and manually manipulate the escapement while lowering the right side of the bracket (With the wider adjustment slot) progressively lower until the escapement locks up. Then raise it till it stops locking up and then higher an almost imperceptible amount more.
    Set the beat and go from there.
     
  13. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
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    Nov 24, 2014
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    When you say "manually manipulate", how do you do that? Do you do that through the pendulum or with your finger? I'll have to remember something like this in the future. I didn't realize that the right side slot was different than the left.

    At this point, the clock ran over night with good specs. I installed the motion works and hands and the clock continues to run with the same rotation and over swing. If it makes it over night, I'll finish things out. Here's hoping!

    Kurt
     
  14. MartinM

    MartinM Registered User

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    Yes. manually manipulation with your finger. (I feel kinda dirty saying it that way.).
    It's best to do the test to see where the impulse is in relation to the anchor pin by letting it drop and then moving the pin back toward center and getting that point on the pallet where impulse starts equal on both sides.
    Too low of a fork is almost always the cause of the jumpy movement of the escapement sometimes seen on these clocks.
     

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