Lock and Drop - again!

Dave T

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I've got a pair of identical Jauch movements here, with Villiamy deadbeat escapemenrts, and I've noticed that one has much more swing than the other. And the lock is deeper. This movement has adjustable pallets and also adjustable bridge, and also adjustable anchor. I don't normally concern myself about this question except for anniversary clocks.
Jauch escapement.jpg
One of these movements has about 3 1/2" swing looking at the bottom of the pendulum, and the other has about 1 3/4".

Before anyone asks, I haven't touched the pallets on either one!

So, which clock is more efficient?
 

bruce linde

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define 'identical'.... :)

ok, so the locks and drops are slightly different. were they both serviced at the same time, by the same person, to the same standards? are the crutch slots identical in width? pallet surfaces polished with correct angles? i know the adjustable don't change the angles that much, but would think that even a little bit could make a difference.

also, you say 'this one has adjustable pallets and bridge.'. does that mean the other way does not?
 

wow

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You asked, “which is more efficient?” I don’t think either is more efficient than the other. I think the one with the wider swing may be efficient longer than the other if both remain the same. It probably has more power reaching the escapement. That’s my guess.
 

Dave T

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define 'identical'.... :)

ok, so the locks and drops are slightly different. were they both serviced at the same time, by the same person, to the same standards? are the crutch slots identical in width? pallet surfaces polished with correct angles? i know the adjustable don't change the angles that much, but would think that even a little bit could make a difference.

also, you say 'this one has adjustable pallets and bridge.'. does that mean the other way does not?
Identical defined as the exact same movements. I'm sure there are quite a few variances in all of the factors you mentioned. The last one I bought has a service tag on it from 2001, and the clock plate is identified as Jauch 78. So, it probably hasn't been serviced in 20 years. That has to be one big factor.

But what I'm really getting at is, ... if all things were equal, should the proper adjustments be for minimal lock and drop? And maybe that's not a real good question.
 

Willie X

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Well, something is different. That's for sure. Your vantage point is way better than mine. :) Willie X
 

bruce linde

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didn't mean to be snippy at all.... how about if you adjust the one with the minimal pendulum swing so that the locks and drops match the one with the bigger swing, and see how that affects things?
 

Dick Feldman

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Have we been here before?
All things being equal, the performance should be equal.
Are you looking at the escapement as the cause of a problem?
Most likely the escapement is again a victim of something else.
Before zeroing in on an escapement as a cause, make sure it has proper power to it.
My call is the one that is performing less has less power.
If you are up for a complicated study, why not swap parts between the two movements and see if the trouble follows. Start first with the springs, then the escapements, then maybe try to add bushings at the wear points.
I still stand that clean, oil and adjust are poor solutions for wear and most times have little effect.
Adjusting to compensate for wear is a short sighted approach.
JMHO,
Dick
 
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Willie X

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I like the speriment DF just suggested.

I would start by switching the pallet arbor assemblies. That would only take a few minutes. It could be a combination of lots of things that are different. ...

Willie X
 

Dave T

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A lot of good points posted here.

Bruce, No offense taken or even suspected. My first thought was to do what you said, adjust the minimal swing movement to equal the locks and drops on the other. That would be an easy first step to see what changes occur.
Willie, After I get the lock and drop as close as I can on the two, I might then swap pallet arbor assemblies and see what happens.

Dick, I might be concentrating on the escapement too much, but that's the first thing I noticed between the two.
I'm sure the power might be just as suspect, maybe more?
I intend to clean and oil the "bigger swing" movement, but wanted to see how it performs first. Don't see any badly worn pivots but will know more when I tear it down. Proper service might well improve the power source.
As for swapping parts, I'll give that some consideration. It would be a good study and I'm sure I would learn a lot from it. But would also take some proper documentation to keep track of parts and a good record to compare how I progressed. Not sure I have the time or inclination to do all that! We'll see.
 

Willie X

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Keep in mind, these clocks are probably around 50 years old and likely have lots of problem's, big and small. Willie X
 
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shutterbug

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I agree. If you have good lock, meaning neither is landing on the impulse face, then increasing lock will have no effect. The impulse is where pendulum action is generated, and many factors can affect it.
EDIT: I wrote this yesterday, and apparently forgot to post it.
 

Dave T

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I put the lock and drop question aside for now. But I've been running the replacement movement for a while now, and noticed that it was losing a lot of time. I adjusted the pendulum substantially and it was still losing. (The same pendulum that was on the old movement.)
So, since the springs are easy to remove without upsetting any of the rest of the assembly, I cleaned and lubed them and now it has gained about a minute an hour.

Just goes to show what cleaning the springs will do to improve power.

I'm sure the rest of the movement needs the same process, just haven't got to it yet.
 

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