Local Want-AD pays off again,Birge, Peck 8 day

Discussion in 'Your Newest Clock Acquisition' started by Russell Dickson, Oct 4, 2019.

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  1. Russell Dickson

    Russell Dickson Registered User
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    Recent local want ad find a very nice Birge, Peck & Co. Eight-Day Column and Cornice Clock circ mid 1840's.i I will post better pictures later on. The clock appears to have original, glass, dial, finish, some veneer loss, weights probably not original, origunal pendulum, label. It has not run for years, so I look forward to getting it going.

    70820487_2481570055399666_5325255131980103680_n.jpg 71600960_582037692333341_2810576141226606592_n.jpg
     
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  2. Jim DuBois

    Jim DuBois Registered User
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    Russell looks like you have scored again! Nice find/buy! The glasses are a nice touch. And the "Puffing Betsy" label too. I appreciate the clocks with good original or at least period glasses more and more. I have acquired some otherwise nice clocks recently that have either plain glass, wrong repainted glasses, or paper insert replacements, all with the hope of finding some proper period tablets. It all reminds me there is no replacement for original surfaces, original labels, original glasses, etc.

    Keep up the search! You are doing well!
     
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  3. Russell Dickson

    Russell Dickson Registered User
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    Thanks, I have been wanting one of these for a while. I have an 8 day Henry Terry woodworks clock that will look nice next to this. Thanks for your help with finding the correct weights for it. I have everything I need I just need to find the time to reassemble it.
     
  4. Steven Thornberry

    Steven Thornberry User Administrator
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    IIRC, Birge, Peck & Co. were the last of the Birge, etc. & etc. firms, lasting from 1848/49 to 1859. Solomon Spring subsequently billed himself as successor to that firm. At first, the labels were just S.C. Spring, successor etc.; later, it was S.C. Spring & Co. Spring later went into business with Welch as Welch, Spring, & Co. Note the label below, very like yours, even with Puffin' Betsy.

    SC Spring Column Label.jpg
     
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  5. Jim DuBois

    Jim DuBois Registered User
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    It is interesting that the reduced size Ives style 8 day 24 hr count wheel strap movement made first circa 1843,evidently by Birge Fuller continued to be made by Spring and ultimately Welsh Spring perhaps as late as 1862. The movements from 1843 are virtually identical with those made in 1862, with one exception. There was a 5th column/post added sometime in the production period of 19+/- years. This is a phonomial length of time for a style of movement to stay in production. It is not clear as to who was making these movements but the same tooling was used as were the same processes. Ken Roberts says some of the last movements produced by Spring or Welsh Spring had 12 hr count wheels replacing the 24 hour count wheels, but I have not found an example of any such modification, yet. Such a change would require other modifications in either the barrel diameter or the strike train gearing. Movement on the right is the earlier style.

    20180824_163444 (2).jpg
     
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  6. Uhralt

    Uhralt Registered User
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    It seems at some time they found out that three rivets for the holding the straps together are just as good as four...:)

    Uhralt
     
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  7. Russell Dickson

    Russell Dickson Registered User
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    The history and tracing the roots of all of the different clockmakers of the era is so fascinating. I guess it was a small world, every clockmaker, it would seem was related in someway to one another.
     
  8. Russell Dickson

    Russell Dickson Registered User
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    It is a funny thing, I was out of the country in central Europe scanning the want ads from my home town area when I can across this one. I had a logistical problem once I negotiated the deal. Fortunately, I was able to get a friend to pick it up and pay for it for me. I guess I have something to look forward to when I go home. I will post better pictures of the clocks movement and all of that when I return from my trip. I maybe making a trip back to the person I bought it from. My friend told me he picked it up at a large Victorian mansion in my area having an estate sale. I am excited to see what other clock treasures I may find there!
     
  9. Russell Dickson

    Russell Dickson Registered User
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    Should this clock have square weights in it?
     
  10. Jim DuBois

    Jim DuBois Registered User
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    I have shared this photo here on the MB before. But, since we are talking about Birge and Peck and Puffin' Betsy labels I picked up a rather sad example a while back. It has a nice label but the gold leaf has been over painted with radiator paint, and has other unpleasant features etc. But, it also has this knockout glass, featuring a rather well developed train. Sorry for any redundancy by sharing again, just think the glass is worth it!

    20180417_075707 (2).jpg
     
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  11. Jim DuBois

    Jim DuBois Registered User
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    #11 Jim DuBois, Oct 6, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2019
    I would expect the weights to be similar to these. Some have more taper than others.

    70810078_10217821136098735_2304999636550549504_o.jpg 593317536_tp (Large).jpg 8 day triple decker.jpg
     
  12. Russell Dickson

    Russell Dickson Registered User
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    Interesting tablet, I didn't see it the last time around. I have a few worse with so called "improvements" others made that I could share myself. I'm glad you shared it again.
     
  13. Russell Dickson

    Russell Dickson Registered User
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    I had someone else pick up my clock for me while I'm out of the country so I have not seen the weights that came with it yet. Out of the countless clocks I have purchased over the years and I'm sure you can relate , one thing is always the same, rarely do they have the original weights or the pulley dust covers. I asked my friend to describe the weights to me and all I got was "They are oblong". I do know these guys from the area nawcc chapter that have plenty of parts so I am sure I can get the correct weights from them if I need to.
     
  14. Jim DuBois

    Jim DuBois Registered User
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    Russell, sadly you are correct about many clocks these days that are separated from their weights, and often their pendulums, keys, and other bits and pieces like pulley covers. That seems to have become more or less acceptable in the last 20 +/-years. Just guessing but I think those habits may come out of so many clocks being shipped today versus many more sales face to face in years past? There have been a couple of auctions in the last 2-3 years where there were hundreds of weights sold in lots. One party I know bought nearly a ton of loose weights for very cheap money. All the dealers at that auction didn't want to haul them, yet they are quite valuable when you have a clock without!
     
  15. Russell Dickson

    Russell Dickson Registered User
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    yeah that is true. I used to deal in clock parts more. I use to buy a lot of vintage clock parts myself, but it is too much work to catalog, price and ship.
     
  16. rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

    rmarkowitz1_cee4a1 Registered User
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    For me, it’s one thing to part out an incomplete basket case, basic wreck or a stash of parts. The last seems to turn up these days more with the passing of a generation of people who repaired clocks.

    What I am most unhappy about is someone who takes a basically intact clock & then sells the parts. There is one guy on eBay who is notorious for that.

    Just 2 weeks ago I was at a local auction where a very nice weight driven Waltham banjo sold. I have 2 and didn’t want a third. I know who bought it. A nice guy but who cannabilizes & sells on eBay. That’s what happened to this lovely clock. A shame and he’s done it to even much earlier and at timesbetter stuff.

    This practice has been debated and even defended here on the MB. Sorry but to me it’s defense is indefensible. Just my opinion and no one else needs to share it.

    RM
     
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  17. Russell Dickson

    Russell Dickson Registered User
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    I agree I hate it too, also when they try to make "art" out of antique clocks.
     
  18. Russell Dickson

    Russell Dickson Registered User
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    So I finally had the chance to tinker around with the clock and get some more pictures. The eight day strap brass movement by Birge and Peck is very clean. The walnut case is near perfect a couple small pieces of veneer chipped off below the left column. The glass tablets are both originals, the top one is flaking, the bottom one looks good. It also has it original square weights.
    It didn't need too much work. I oiled the pivots. Someone took the weights out and wound the weights hooks all the way up so they were stuck in the case pulleys on top. I removed them and manually unspooled the line and put the cables back up through the case pulleys and hooked up the weights. I also had to straighten out the suspension spring. I hooked the bob on and it has been running nicely all day.
    I am not sure if I have the weights in the right channels though. One is shorter and stouter, the other taller and skinny. They both weigh 8.6 pounds so I installed them the way you see them in the pictures. The clock seems to be running fine the way it is.

    Funny thing I have been noticed on this clock and on a few other new purchase, a lot of people must get annoyed with the coil gongs because I have been finding the strike arms bent out so they don't hit the gongs.

    20191019_123804.jpg 20191019_123811.jpg 20191019_123822.jpg 20191019_130802.jpg 20191019_130812.jpg
     
  19. Russell Dickson

    Russell Dickson Registered User
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    Here are some better pictures of the case, not a bad Craig's list find, only paid $75.00.

    20191019_152845 - Copy.jpg 20191019_152855.jpg 20191019_152903 - Copy.jpg 20191019_152914.jpg
     
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  20. Russell Dickson

    Russell Dickson Registered User
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    So a little birdie told me you have an Ives steeple on steeple?
     
  21. Jim DuBois

    Jim DuBois Registered User
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    Sorry, no steeple on steeple these days. I have a fair number of Ives and Ives related clocks but no double steeples right now.
     
  22. rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

    rmarkowitz1_cee4a1 Registered User
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    Very nice indeed!

    I would just venture to say the veneer is mahogany rather than walnut but it's not out of the question. The other typical choice was rosewood.

    Enjoy you nice clock.

    RM
     
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  23. Jim DuBois

    Jim DuBois Registered User
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    Walnut veneer was not widely used in Conn made clocks. IMO mahogany is a more pleasing color to start, often has better details and curl/enhanced grain patterns, and is often a feature in the overall look of a clock. Walnut is generally more bland and comes off looking olive drab more often than not. Yes, there are clocks with wonderful walnut cases; they just are not often Conn made production cases.
     
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  24. Russell Dickson

    Russell Dickson Registered User
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    Oh too bad. I would have liked to see an Ives steeple on steeple. I was researching old threads and thought I saw you post something about an ives steeple
     
  25. Russell Dickson

    Russell Dickson Registered User
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    I could be mistaken about the wood type. My dining room gives clock a darker appearance for some reason
     
  26. Russell Dickson

    Russell Dickson Registered User
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    I could be mistaken. Happy with the find either way. It has been running perfectly for 2 days now
     
  27. Jim DuBois

    Jim DuBois Registered User
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    #27 Jim DuBois, Oct 20, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2019
    Russell, the only Ives double steeple I remember posting was this 30 day time only candlestick version. It was offered to me about three years ago at a price outside my wallet contents. I sent the information to a local friend who bought it immediately. These are quite rare, perhaps less than a half dozen in existence today. I wish I could have afforded it, but I have seen it in person and have been able to dig into it if only a bit. Neat timepiece!

    ives 30 day.jpg ives 30 day1.jpg ives 30 day5 (2).jpg ives 30 day2.jpg ives 30 day7.jpg ives 30 day7x.jpg
     
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  28. Russell Dickson

    Russell Dickson Registered User
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    Wow, I have heard that Ives made steeple on steeple clocks, but I have never actually seen one. I recognize the wagon wheel mechanism, but the rest of the movement looks new to me. I know Terry and Andrews steeple on steepes and Birge and Fuller double decker steeples go for a lot of money , so I can imagine what this clock went for. You are a stronger man than me! I would be haunted by it if I let a clock like this slip through my fingers! What do you know about the movement?
     
  29. Jim DuBois

    Jim DuBois Registered User
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    This is what Ken Roberts says, paraphrased, about these timepieces ;
    "A rare artifact made by Joseph Ives, probably after his association with Birge and Fuller after 1847, in a Gothic case, is the time only 30-day steeple clock. The label states: "Patent/ ACCELERATING LEVER SPRING/THIRTY DAY BRASS TIME PIECE/Made and for sale Wholesale and Retail by/JOSEPH IVES/Bristol, Conn." Such a movement, without a strike train, is referred to as a timepiece. Both great wheel gears meshed into a common non-rolling center pinion. All other pinions within this movement were of the rolling construction."

    30 day time only.jpg
     
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  30. Jim DuBois

    Jim DuBois Registered User
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    I forgot one of the more important photos. The label in this Ives candlestick steeple declares it to be 30 day.

    ives 30 day6.jpg
     

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