Living with an IBM Master Clock

Hello all

It is great to have such an interesting clock mounted on the wall at home but anyone who knows how these things work will know that they are noisy. The tic, tic of the main escapement is a very nice sound but that big CLUNK every 60 seconds is something else.
The previous owner of my example came up with an interesting idea of using 2, 12 volt power supplies in series. The first is a fixed 12 volt and the second is variable. Both ex train set units. This gives you a variable power supply of about 13 to 26 volts. You start at max (26) and gradually wind it down till you get to the minimum the clock needs to work. As you do this it gets quieter. Next I had a lot of echo from the box so I filled the back space between the clock and the wall with thick pile carpet. I also attached some felt to the back of the dial and things got a bit better. Last thing I did was to attach a small spring to the solinoid plunger to keep a bit of tension on it. This got rid of a bit of a rattle that you could hear with each puls. I did make sure to do this in a way that does not hurt the clock. No new holes etc. I am now at a point where we can live with the clock the way it is but visitors who decide to stay over still have a problem with the clunk.
This brings me to my next idea but first I need to find out a bit more about how the clock works.

1/ I believe the clock has a spring in it that will keep things going when the power goes off. If the clock were to be turned off for say 8 hours how long would it take to rewind the spring?

2/ If I were to put a timer on the power supply to turn off the clock every night and then on again each morning would this cause any problems.
In other words would it be OK to use the spring every day or is it intended only for occasional use.

I have a few other questions as well but that will do for starters.

TIA

Steve

 

Is there per chance anyone watching who has one of these devices who would be willing to post a picture of it. I don't think making it will be a problem once I know what it looks like and how it attaches to the clock.
TIA
Steve

 

For the time being I have put a simple timer on the mains to the clock. Turns off at midnight and on again at 7.00 am.
The clock is still going fine and keeping time. Nights are quiet.
I am still not sure if this approach will work for any length of time because I do not know how long the clock takes to rewind the spring after a power outage.
For example if I am taking out 7 hours of run time but only putting back 6 hours of wind then I am loosing 1 hour of spring reserve a day and the clock will stop after about 24 days. This is just a guess.
I do not have any of the other bits that go with the clock so there is nothing else to power. No other noises to contend with.
Is regular use of the spring backup going to cause any long term problems.
I imagine the spring reserve was not intended for regular use but for use as a backup system. Could I damage something by using it this way?
TIA
Steve

 

Just wanted to bring people up to date with where I am with this clock.
The timer idea worked till 2 weeks ago when the clock stopped. I suspect that the time it was off ( 4 hours) was just a bit longer than the spring time it recovered each day so it lost a bit each time till it eventually stopped. It has taken a few months. I will set it going again and see if the same thing happens. A kind member has also sent some instructions that involve a capacitor that is supposed to make it quieter. I will give that a shot over the Christmas break.

 

Hello Edwardo,

Thanks for the tip on the capacitor idea. I was about to try it.
Further investigation into why my clock stopped has revealed a broken spring. It would appear that the timer idea did not work either as the main spring was not up to everyday use.
I have found some nice motors but they are faster than 1 rpm. Am now considering running the motor once each min with the existing setup and arranging for it to run for just 1 revolution. I will let you know how the idea works out. Meantime here is a couple of pics of my movement.
I took these before I touched anything so I can put it back as it was when I am finished. Looks like it will have to come apart so might as well clean and service it. If anyone knows where I can source a mainspring I would be gratefull for the clue.

Steve

 

Thanks Frank,
I have been told about the accumulator but do not think this one is complete. I suspect there are some bits removed by the previous owner.
From the back by the look of it. The wheels turn easily enough but do not appear to perform any function at this time. I suspect it has been disabled in some way as you have mentioned would be a good idea. I will be leaving it there as it does not appear to cause any problems and looks interesting.

Thanks Harold,
I will contact you about the spring once I know for sure if mine is broken.
I am not sure about cleaning the whole clock as this would appear to be a big task given all the extra bits that would have to be removed and replaced. If I just cleaned some of the brass that would make the rest look worse. At least at the moment from the front all the bits match. It does need a clean and service of all the working parts to put it in good working order. How far would you go with a clean?

Steve

 

Hello Harold,
I do not fully understand your referance to "overtightened the winder"
My clock has a solenoid that pulls a lever against a coil spring.
The coil spring does the winding and not the solenoid.
Once the main spring is fully wound the solenoid will still pull the lever in but the coil spring will not be able to wind it any further.
I have not altered or replaced any of these parts. They are exactly as they were when I recieved the clock. If something is not as it should be I am not aware of it.

 

Thanks Harold for your explanation. I have found the adjustment that you mentioned. Currently mine is set in about the centre of its range. I can not say if the coil spring is origional but it appears to have been there for some time. Closer inspection of the main spring shows that it is either disconnected in the middle or broken. From the outside all looks intact. I am currently working on a winding arrangement to replace the solenoid and will take the clock apart once that is made.

 

Hello Edwardo,

Thanks for the pictures. I see how they did it but the 1 rpm motor is not so easy to find. Here is what I have come up with so far. My winder is on a brass plate attached to the side using existing screw holes so I can remove it easily if the right part ever comes my way. This system uses a 60 rpm motor that will be geared down. It will have a latching relay that will make the winder run for 1 turn each time the clock pulses. It might look a but messy but I am using bits I already have so it is only costing me time.
The adjusting screw at the end allows adjustment of the throw inwards and push rod is free in the brass body so it can stay in if the clock is fully wound. Doesn't look much but there are a couple of earlier ideas in the bin which we won't talk about. Will get it finished as soon as work gets out of the way. Just wanted to show you progress to date.
Harold, I would like to accept your offer for a spring if you can give me some contact details. Also I suspect the winding latch is worn but am hoping I can reshape the tooth to fix that. Has this been your experience?
Thanks

 

Here are a couple of pictures of my completed winder module. I will add one of it on the clock when I get the clock back together again. Mainspring was broken 2 coils from the inner end. Either old age or it did not like working every night. The winder takes just over 1 second to do it's thing so this can be used with all the origional switch gear. It should behave just like the old solenoide did but with no noise. The relay also makes life easier for the points as they no longer carry much current. I have managed to keep the winder as a complete unit in its own right so tis easy to remove later if needed. I have also stamped my name on the new bit so those who follow will know it is a ring in. If I had a couple of gears I would have used those in place of the chain but I have used what I had to hand and it works OK. The chain, gears and motor are from a 35mm securiety camera. The switch gear is from a telephone switchboard. No extra holes were drilled in the clock.

 

Here are some pictures of the winder fitted to the clock.
I managed to get a workable mainspring and the clock has had a bit of a clean and service. I did not brighten the plates as the thought of pulling all the switchgear apart to do the job properly was a bit daunting. So it still has it origional patina but all the working parts have been cleaned and re oiled. For myself I don't mind that it looks old. The new spring is a bit firmer than the old one and I don't think it will fully wind. This will not effect normal operation but the clock will not have the same reserve if the power goes off. For my use I don't see that as a big problem.

 

Back together again. Even though the motor I used is 24 volt I have had to reduce the voltage to 12v. In my case this was easy cause I have a variable voltage power supply already installed. This has made it even quieter. The clock is runnung better than ever. Still have 24v available to run a slave if I find one. All that remains is to see how well it stands up to time. I will let it run like this for a bit while I turn my attention to the new dial.

 

My clock has been running about 2 weeks now with no problems. The only thing I have noticed is that the pendulum now swings further than it did before. It must have liked being cleaned and re oiled. It is now swinging about 1/4 inch past the ends of the scale on the indicator at the bottom.
I don't mind the bigger swing and it does not appeared to have upset the time keeping but is this a problem and if so can anyone tell me how to adjust it.

 

Hello Frank.
Here is a picture of the complete clock. Am currently working on a new dial to make it look a bit more interesting and will add another picture when that is finished. The old dial will be attached to the back of the case to preserve it. Next owner can put it back if they want.

 

Thanks Frank,

That is interesting,

However the article about IBM time equipment said that "IBM time equipment is manufactured in the companies plant in Endicott NY"

The accumilator on my clock (the bit attached to the bottom of the movement) is marked "INTERNATIONAL made in England"

Could this be an English made case. Since it was imported into Australia it could have come from anywhere.

 

There are no other holes in the case to indicate that anything else was ever in there. The transformers were added by the previous owner and I have not changed them. Clock is 24v dc. There is a metal tag on the left side just behind the cross bar held on with 2 round head wood screws that has the number 18867 2035. The first part matches the movement no and the second part matches the accumilator no. As far as I can see this is all as it should be but there is no radio stuff anywhere. Could there have been an Australian agent who imported parts and assembled the clocks here as and when needed. You could pack a lot of stuff into a case that big.
Frank. Steamcar hints at another one of my bad habbits but it has nothing to do with clocks. Soothead also works.

 

Hello Frank,

Would be fun to see a picture of it. Any chance of posting one here.

As to power I am not sure about frequencey but I do remember in my younger days that every decent sized factory in Melbourne had a backup generator installed. They used to run it every couple of weeks to keep it in good order. These don't appear to be as common now. Perhaps we have built a few more generators since those days.

 

Hello Fdew,
Thanks for the links. Both clocks are similar to mine and yet the case is still a bit different. They both appear to have a timber framed door on the front. Size given is 54 by 15 1/2
Now look at the picture of my clock. You will see a key on the side near the top. Just above that is a piece of timber accross the front. This is fixed. Same at the bottom. Between those is a full width hinged class door. The silver parts are attached to the ends of the glass and cary the hinges and the catches for the locks. Size of my case is 61 by 18 1/2.
I like the white dials on your examples. Better looking than the dial that was on my clock. I wonder if the movements inside were the same as mine.

 

Hello Frank,

I found the movement pictures and the clock appears the same as mine less the solenoide wind which is removed in favour of a motor wind. This could have been a change later in life or it might have come like that. Is also missing the accumulator device but there is some electrics on the side that may provide that function. My clock is no E 18867. Could not make out the number of the museum one but it appears to have 1 more figure than mine something like Z372108. Not sure if the glass fronted case is newer or the smaller size is the newer version. Perhaps both were available at the same time. I see the ebay one went for under 90 pound. Not much to pay given all the fun I have had with mine so far.