LFS clock serial numbers

philkeys

Registered User
Apr 26, 2010
9
2
3
I have been collecting LFS movement serials numbers from eBay and other sources and I thought to share the attached spreadsheet with you. Additions and corrections are welcome.
 

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THTanner

NAWCC Member
Jul 3, 2016
2,838
240
63
Carson City, Nevada
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Serial number 74,965 movement is in an oak wall clock - time and 1/4 hour - plus hour strike - in a clock by George Goeser of Zurich

It has a 43 on the side of the back plate - but I don't know what that means

IMG_3213.JPG View attachment 509543 IMG_3215.JPG IMG_3221.JPG IMG_3225.JPG IMG_3209.JPG
 

THTanner

NAWCC Member
Jul 3, 2016
2,838
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Carson City, Nevada
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Hi all!

I assume this movement was made in 1924.
43 - the length of the pendulum in centimeters.

BR, Tatyana
Thank you so much - since posting I found an excel sheet that showed a lot of LFS serial numbers and the 74,xxx would fit into the 192x time frame.

From the suspension spring pin to the center of gravity is 35 cm - and to the bottom of the rod is 50 - so the 43 would be a case size estimator - or perhaps it would be measured from somewhere below the pin :)
 

Tatyana

Registered User
Jan 2, 2016
560
158
43
Saint Petersburg
Country
This model is in the catalogue of 1929 under the number 3793.
On the back wall of the case of this clock can stand the numbers 3793 and 128 (caliber movement).

This excel table is too small to help in dating. A feature of the LFS is the numbering in accordance with the type of movement (movement caliber).
 
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THTanner

NAWCC Member
Jul 3, 2016
2,838
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Carson City, Nevada
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This model is in the catalogue of 1929 under the number 3793.
On the back wall of the case of this clock can stand the numbers 3793 and 128 (caliber movement).

This excel table is too small to help in dating. A feature of the LFS is the numbering in accordance with the type of movement (movement caliber).
Thank you so much - my customer will be very happy to hear all of this. His grandmother bought the clock in Zurich and he inherited it about 5 years ago when his mother died but did not know much about it. Sadly it has been abused a bit, but hopefully with some help I can get it back to normal for him.

So Goeser of Zurich simply put his name on the dial of an LFS model clock? I know this was not uncommon.

The parts LFS I found in Latvia (time and strike movement only) has serial 40557 - I am hoping to be able to get at least the tooth and leaf counts for the missing S3

tom
 

THTanner

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Jul 3, 2016
2,838
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Carson City, Nevada
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Thanks - it will be interesting to see if the single hammer S3 is the same as for the 6 hammer movement. Since both are 128 I am hopeful.
There is a small lever on the 6 hammer model with a second cam that moves the two hammers for the 1/4 hour strike forward a bit so they do not strike on the hour. I am hoping that is the only real difference and would not matter to the design of the S3.
 

THTanner

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Jul 3, 2016
2,838
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Carson City, Nevada
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This is another LFS - is a triple train - with 4 rods on the chime side and two on the strike
It looks like model 129 on the back, but it is rather hard to read - also has a 7 in the middle of the back board
Serial number is 115197
It will need a bit of case work and a lot of movement work - but should be fun
Any date or additional model information would be great
thanks

IMG_3232.JPG IMG_3238.JPG IMG_3244.JPG IMG_3250.JPG IMG_3260.JPG IMG_3261.JPG IMG_3262.JPG IMG_3263.JPG IMG_3264.JPG IMG_3265.JPG
 

Feather

Registered User
Jan 18, 2016
74
11
8
St. Petersburg
Country
Greetings!
The back plate of the movement shows 3 different patents issued during 1912-1913. So 1913 can be seen as "no early' date. Other than that there is a pencil writing on the back wall below the catalog / movement number. Is there any chance to make a better view of that? looks like a date?
The upper number (374) should be a catalog No, while 129 refers to a works caliber. Will it be possible to get a front view of the movement? We have a clear front picture of the 129 caliber from the catalog, does it look the same as yours?
Regards,
Nick

Caliber 129 1929.jpg
 

THTanner

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Jul 3, 2016
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Thanks so much. When I return I will get more pictures and try some different lighting on the scripts. From other serials I had estimated mid 1920s. The movement is very dirty with some rust so removal of the dial was difficult. It should come off after a few days of penetrating oil.
 

THTanner

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Jul 3, 2016
2,838
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Carson City, Nevada
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Looks a bit different - but similar - perhaps an newer version?

As dirty as this is - it actually will function with finger pressure. The strike side initiation is different but still functions

LFS_front.JPG
 
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THTanner

NAWCC Member
Jul 3, 2016
2,838
240
63
Carson City, Nevada
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Region
Interesting fan with moving counter weight -

Curious cardboard tubes over the top two posts - Not sure why they are there. Nothing impacts the top posts. Must be some pretty good material to have lasted this long in such a dirty movement.

IMG_3316.JPG IMG_3378.JPG IMG_3379.JPG IMG_3380.JPG IMG_3381.JPG IMG_3382.JPG
 

Feather

Registered User
Jan 18, 2016
74
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St. Petersburg
Country
This fan "fly" looks quite interesting although it is not something rare... Cardboard tubes also could be found on late LFS clockworks... Like here on the attached photo.

carbon.JPG
 
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THTanner

NAWCC Member
Jul 3, 2016
2,838
240
63
Carson City, Nevada
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Region
Cardboard tubes also could be found on late LFS clockworks... Like here on the attached photo.
Any idea what the purpose might be for the cardboard tubes? I was guessing that perhaps during assembly and testing they used the tubes to support the movement and not mar the posts and then simply left them in place.
 

THTanner

NAWCC Member
Jul 3, 2016
2,838
240
63
Carson City, Nevada
Country
Region
What would be the caliber number for this LFS - serial number 240 ?

It is time and strike with a count wheel between the plates. I think the age is early 1880s ?

What sort of case might it have been in? Any other information would be great as well.

IMG_3415.JPG IMG_3416.JPG IMG_3417.JPG IMG_3418.JPG IMG_3419.JPG
 
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Feather

Registered User
Jan 18, 2016
74
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St. Petersburg
Country
Looks like 116, but with some differences (maybe a modification of 116?). Do you have a picture of the case of the clock? May help to date. 116s are quite rare and it looks like they all come from 191x. Here is an example:

557 back wall.jpg 557 clock.jpg 557 mov sn.jpg 557 mov up.jpg
 

THTanner

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Jul 3, 2016
2,838
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Thanks. Unfortunately I know nothing about what this came out of. I got a batch of clock movements from a closed clock shop in Austria and this was in the mix.
 

Feather

Registered User
Jan 18, 2016
74
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St. Petersburg
Country
But to tell you the truth I have never seen LFS movement with internal count wheel. 116th caliber has normal rack and strike mechanics so this one you have showed us is really something rare and special!
Maybe Tatyana has something similar in her database. If not, I am sure she will keep an eye on that matter.
 
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THTanner

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Jul 3, 2016
2,838
240
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Carson City, Nevada
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But to tell you the truth I have never seen LFS movement with internal count wheel. 116th caliber has normal rack and strike mechanics so this one you have showed us is really something rare and special!
Maybe Tatyana has something similar in her database. If not, I am sure she will keep an eye on that matter.
I came by this rather by accident and if it is indeed a bit rare and special it should go to someone who could put it to proper use, even if that means just to fully research and document the movement.
It appears complete except for the hammer arm and I can see no other obvious damage.
No matter how I tried to use it, I am not in a position to appropriately use an unusual movement.

I don't have the experience, skills or resources to recreate what this probably came out of, and if it is rare it should be used accordingly.
 

THTanner

NAWCC Member
Jul 3, 2016
2,838
240
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Carson City, Nevada
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--------------------------------------------
This movement from Latvia arrived yesterday and I am a bit puzzled.
The plates on this movement (40557) are 30mm apart - which I assume is the 128 caliber standard size.
The plates on the 74965 (customer's) movement are 38mm apart.
The main reason for the difference is the size of the strike spring. The time spring barrels are the same, but the strike barrel on the 74965 is wider - hence the wider plates - and it is also larger diameter. I guess they needed a much larger spring to drive the opposing 4 and 2 hammer set up.
There are no visible marks anywhere on the case of the customer's clock, because it has been re-varnished or lacquered at some point, so nothing shows.
The S3 on 40557 and on the LFS 240 movement have 10 pins for the hammers, so I will assume that is correct for the 74965 as well.
 

Feather

Registered User
Jan 18, 2016
74
11
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St. Petersburg
Country
Hi THTanner,
could you please show picture of 74965 movement from the rear, from the front and from the above. I just took a closer look at the pix you have provided (which do not show complete movement, just parts of it) and I am afraid your movement is not 128 cal. Besides you have mentioned it strikes 1/4, and 128 cal movements strike only half hour and hour.
40557 from Latvia is no doubt 128 cal in its latter modification.
 

THTanner

NAWCC Member
Jul 3, 2016
2,838
240
63
Carson City, Nevada
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Region
could you please show picture of 74965 movement from the rear, from the front and from the above. I just took a closer look at the pix you have provided (which do not show complete movement, j
I have been preparing a full set of pictures now that both movements are here. These are all of 74965. You will see the snail in front of the hour wheel for the rack as usual, and a second cam behind it. The one behind the hour wheel controls the 1/4 hour striking by the two hammer set. To the left of the snail are several levers that affect how the rack functions at the 1/4 1/2 and 3/4 and then also move the two hammer set out of the way for the hour strike by the four hammer set. In one photo you can see my thumb lifting the lever to move the two hammers toward the back plate about a 1/4 inch. S3 on this movement would most likely have 10 pins on one side for the hour strike hammers, and an unknown number of pins on the other side for the 1/4 hour action on the two hammers. With S3 missing I am not able to actually make everything go through a full cycle.

The four hammers move as a group striking a four note chord. The two hammer pair are each activated separately like a bim-bam I have not been able to figure out if the hour hammer set also strikes the chord on the 1/4s. There does not appear to be anything that would keep the pins on that side from lifting the hour hammers. The owner has not heard any sound from the clock for more than 10 years and cannot remember what it actually sounds like, but he says he vaguely remembers that the 1/4s involve a multi note pattern, and the hour is the usual count out on a chord.

The 128 caliber movement has 4 1/8 x 3 7/8 plates. 74965 plates are 4 7/16 square.

the full set of photos takes three posts.

IMG_3217.JPG IMG_3218.JPG IMG_3219.JPG IMG_3220.JPG IMG_3221.JPG IMG_3222.JPG IMG_3223.JPG IMG_3225.JPG IMG_3226.JPG
 
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Feather

Registered User
Jan 18, 2016
74
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8
St. Petersburg
Country
This is very nice movement! I have records for a couple of such movements although did not manage to define caliber. Let me show some of them, maybe pictures will give you some useful details.
S/N 80 700
Here you can find video of the clock chiming...

80 700 case main.jpg 80 700 movement.jpg 80 700 movement up.jpg 80 700 movement oks1.jpg 80 700 movement oks.jpg
 
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THTanner

NAWCC Member
Jul 3, 2016
2,838
240
63
Carson City, Nevada
Country
Region
fantastic. that is what I needed. Any chance of a closeup of S3? In particular I would like to know what the pin pattern is. Tooth and leaf counts would be great also. It looks like 6 pins for the bim bam, and the four hammer side with the pins straight through? Also what is the caliber number?
 
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THTanner

NAWCC Member
Jul 3, 2016
2,838
240
63
Carson City, Nevada
Country
Region
Unfortunately I have only pics, nothing more. Maybe someone else could help.
ahhh - thanks so much for your help -
by blowing up two of the images on a better screen I have been able to count 10 pins on S3 that go through the wheel for both sets of hammers. And I think 9 leaves, but that is by estimating from a 1/2 side view.

In the you tube of the strikes - it sounds to me like at least one of the bim bam hammers, perhaps both, strike along with the hour count 4 chord hammers. I have not seen this in action, but moving things manually it seems that the hammer pair moves out of the way for the hour strike on this crippled movement. It certainly has a wonderful sound.
 

Angel-Alex

Registered User
Feb 7, 2019
5
0
1
38
Country
Hello and thank you for having me here,

I have inherited a wonderful LFS clock and I was wondering how old is it and if it's mechanism matches the case. The mechanism number is 16.460 and on the back of the case I guess 128 is written. I wanted to access the serial number list but it seems that I do not have enough posts in order to do that, so that's why I'm asking you this way. Thank you in advance.

Kind regards,
Angel H.

IMG_20190206_092654.jpg IMG_20190206_091447.jpg
 

THTanner

NAWCC Member
Jul 3, 2016
2,838
240
63
Carson City, Nevada
Country
Region
The mechanism number is 16.460 and on the back of the case I guess 128 is written.
The 128 is the "caliber" number of the movement indicating the type and size. The excel sheet that you cannot open indicates a date of about 1910 but others can perhaps get a bit closer. Can you post some pictures of the rest of the case and the dial?
 

Angel-Alex

Registered User
Feb 7, 2019
5
0
1
38
Country
The 128 is the "caliber" number of the movement indicating the type and size. The excel sheet that you cannot open indicates a date of about 1910 but others can perhaps get a bit closer. Can you post some pictures of the rest of the case and the dial?
Thank you very much for your quick reply. Here are some in dark with phone photos. The case is made of rosrwood and I think the glass is cristal.

Kind regards,
Angel H.

IMG_20190207_225035.jpg IMG_20190207_225042.jpg IMG_20190207_225050.jpg IMG_20190207_225101.jpg
 

Angel-Alex

Registered User
Feb 7, 2019
5
0
1
38
Country
Hello, Angel!

Your clock was made in 1912.
Here is the same model from St. Petersburg.

BR, Tatyana
Hello,

Thank you for the exact info. Do you happen to know if it's good mechanism? I really like the case mainly due to the fact that is made of rosewood, but also for it's elegant simplicity.

Is the clock from the pictures yours? St. Petersburg brings up some nice memories for me...what a wonderful place.

Kind regards,
Angel H.
 

Tatyana

Registered User
Jan 2, 2016
560
158
43
Saint Petersburg
Country
I haven't unfortunately movements LFS, this 128 caliber was produced during 25 years.
When sold this clock I thought it Lenzkirch, because on the dial is "Павелъ Буре" (this trading house specialized in sales Lenzkirch).
This clock belongs to my colleague Sergey from the Russian forum.
On the Russian forum a lot of information on LFS Датировка LFS - Часовой форум Watch.ru

BR, Tatyana
 

Feather

Registered User
Jan 18, 2016
74
11
8
St. Petersburg
Country
Greetings to everybody! A little input on 128 caliber and serial numbers. I got some pics of the clock with s/n 22 415, same clockworks, same trade house in Russia - Paul Bure (Павелъ Буре), although the case is something different. What is significant, the back deck of the case features a stamp with the year of manufacture (sale?). Please take a look. 1914 г stands for 1914 год (1914 year).
BTW: I own several clocks with 128 movement and the only issue I had was in mainsprings. Some of them got tired and will not work for 14 days, so I am winding them weekly. Funny is that the later clocks made in 1930's mostly suffer from that.

22 415 clock.jpg 22 415 sn.jpg 22 415 case back.jpg 22 415 dial.jpg
 

Angel-Alex

Registered User
Feb 7, 2019
5
0
1
38
Country
I haven't unfortunately movements LFS, this 128 caliber was produced during 25 years.
When sold this clock I thought it Lenzkirch, because on the dial is "Павелъ Буре" (this trading house specialized in sales Lenzkirch).
This clock belongs to my colleague Sergey from the Russian forum.
On the Russian forum a lot of information on LFS Датировка LFS - Часовой форум Watch.ru

BR, Tatyana
Thank you for your help.

Kind regards,
Angel H.
 

Feather

Registered User
Jan 18, 2016
74
11
8
St. Petersburg
Country
fantastic. that is what I needed. Any chance of a closeup of S3? In particular I would like to know what the pin pattern is. Tooth and leaf counts would be great also. It looks like 6 pins for the bim bam, and the four hammer side with the pins straight through? Also what is the caliber number?
Tom, it looks like the caliber number of your clock is 112. I found these pix on net auction today:

89 645 mov 1.jpg 89 645 case cat no1 .jpg 89 645 clock.jpg
 
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THTanner

NAWCC Member
Jul 3, 2016
2,838
240
63
Carson City, Nevada
Country
Region
I meant to update this some time ago but realised I never finished the posting. This is in regards to LFS 74965. This clock arrived with a missing part that had been severely damaged years before when the ratchet failed and ripped up the chime/strike side. At the time the assembly that controlled the two sets of hammers was removed and thrown away and that 1/2 of the movement was wired so that it could not be wound and would not activate.

The owner asked me if I could see about getting it restored. This has a 'waterfall strike' which I had never heard of and knew nothing about. There were no pictures or drawings of what the missing piece might look like, but after some help from Feather and others we began to get an idea of what needed to be made. All of that was way above my pay grade so I sent the movement to David LaBounty. David reverse engineered the missing item, manufactured it, installed it and timed the movement for me.

The piece he made can be seen in the attached photo (with the white tie wrap) with ten pins going through the wheel. The pins on one side handle the bank of four hammers and the pins on the other side handle the bim/bam pair. Amazing work and a restored clock :) Thank you David.

Feather3.jpg IMG_0230.JPG IMG_3209.JPG
 
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