Elgin had been making holie balance cocks since the early 70s, as far as I can tell at the moment from collecting observations. Ny/Hampden was no stranger to special orders on private labels. What makes these watches so interesting is their later characteristics. This whole run that includes Jim's new watch, is shown as Woolworth in 1875 as per inventory records. Somehow, they ended up being nickel movements labeled Hampden Watch Co, or M.J. & Co. Sure it was just a name change. But New York Watch Co closed in 1875. Reopened as the NY Watch Manufacturing co, which only lasted about 8 months, and closed, and the factory didn't reopen as Hampden untill summer of 77. "The old movement of the NY company was remodeled". This is according to Henry G Abbott It wasn't like everything just up and vanished and every new movement started after one specific serial number. There was tons of inventory around, and the fun of this thread is to see people's examples, and maybe figure at what serial numbers did these various remodeled grades actually start. It's interesting to identify movements made of leftover and new or made over parts. In the case of the movements like Jim's, they seem to be 100% Hampden DNA, but their serial number is lower than many NY watches. They were still finishing Bond movements as Hampden, I'm sure they interest you. Isn't it interesting to find out which ones should and shouldn't have a Hampden Dial on them? I would think misinformation has caused many incorrect dial swaps. There were certainly noticable and rapid changes between what was left behind, and what Hampden springfield ended up with as a lineup. Maybe at that point Cain had a better plan. This is all for what it's worth, I've only been on this a year or so, but it's interesting. I'm sure there's much much more to discover and learn. Sorry buddy but i don't understand, they match and it's the remodeled style as far as I can tell. Maybe I'm missing something? I think the artist just didn't accentuate the click.