lending library

Discussion in 'Horological Books' started by Jon Hanson, Oct 15, 2006.

  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  1. Jon Hanson

    Jon Hanson Registered User
    NAWCC Member Golden Circle

    Aug 24, 2000
    17,647
    106
    63
    Male
    Boston, Ma.
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Does anyone know the number of nawcc books loaned monthly on the average per year at the library?

    Thanks.

    Jon
     
  2. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
    Staff Member NAWCC Star Fellow NAWCC Ruby Member Sponsor

    Aug 24, 2000
    81,786
    1,292
    176
    Male
    retired SW dev
    Boston
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    #2 Tom McIntyre, Oct 15, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 7, 2017
    I will take a look at adding up the past year. Here is the most recent monthly report.
     
  3. kirklox

    kirklox Registered User

    Dec 17, 2002
    1,048
    1
    0
    Tom: Does this seem to be a good use rate by 25000 Members? I know Chapter 62 checked out a couple videos for their last meeting.
     
  4. Fortunat Mueller-Maerki

    Fortunat Mueller-Maerki National Library Chair
    NAWCC Star Fellow NAWCC Life Member

    Aug 25, 2000
    1,486
    49
    48
    Male
    Horological Bibliographer -
    Sussex New Jersey USA
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Jon

    here are a few figures extracted from the LIBRARY DIRECTORS MONTHLY REPORT


    LARC statistics 2006
    Month/Visitors/Books Lent/Videos lent/Total lent

    MAR 187 191 190 381
    APR 125 220 191 411
    MAY 178 197 130 327
    JUN 226 163 176 339
    JUL 224 179 121 300
    AUG 257 164 191 355
    SEP 193 204 153 357

    In addition the Library typically handles between 100 aqnd 200 research requests per month from members, and catalogs over 100 newly aquired items each month.

    These volumes stretch the available staff resources to the limit.

    As expected there are sizable variations over time, many attributable to the number of studenbts enrolled in classes at the school of horology.

    Hope this is helpfull
     
  5. kirklox

    kirklox Registered User

    Dec 17, 2002
    1,048
    1
    0
    Fortunat: It is eye opening to say the least. Out of ~25000 members the use rate of the library is a paltry sum. No wonder you said the members are Bibliophobes.

    If we are overworking our staff so much, we could cut back on lending books out altogether. This would eliminate any further damage to these Priceless possessions.
     
  6. Jon Hanson

    Jon Hanson Registered User
    NAWCC Member Golden Circle

    Aug 24, 2000
    17,647
    106
    63
    Male
    Boston, Ma.
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    How about lending out books only at Columbia to be read in the library, and not by mail. Save time, salaries and expenses?
     
  7. Mike Kearney

    Mike Kearney Guest

    I would suspect that the 100 to 200 research requests per month is what stretches the staff resources, not loaning books via mail or in person. It's an extremly valuable service.

    Being a person who appreciates books, I can't understand why would you suggest that the library cut back on lending books out altogether. It's a valuable member service. Of course there's nothing like wandering around in person. I'm way overdue for a visit.

    Let's just make sure we're not headed towards a discussion on policy or politics. There's other places to discuss that.

    Regards,
    Mike
     
  8. kirklox

    kirklox Registered User

    Dec 17, 2002
    1,048
    1
    0
    Mike: There could possibly be a research area set up on this MB to help channel some of those questions to the Members as a test. Would that not make this MB a better Resourse for the NAWCC?

    I agree totally with you. All areas of Policy and Politics should never be discussed. Those are the most important rules in the WORLD.
     
  9. Mike Kearney

    Mike Kearney Guest

    That's an interesting concept... So Sharon or Nancy could take member questions sent to the library and post them here on the MB and we could help find the answers. Of course they could do that now, couldn't they?

    Regards,
    Mike
     
  10. kirklox

    kirklox Registered User

    Dec 17, 2002
    1,048
    1
    0
    I don't know. That would be an NAWCC policy decision. I have never seen them do that.

    I have received many questions by email and have turned around and posted them. Usually received an answer within a few hours.
     
  11. John Weigel

    John Weigel Registered User

    Apr 17, 2005
    66
    0
    0
    ER MD
    N California
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    If Ms Dyer starts posting my questions, I shall be most unsatisfied with the level of response. If you lend books only for library use I predict a revolution. Maybe we need a California NAWCC in Sacramento, of course. or put the whole library on line and give everyone a computer! And Geek service! I read the Louis Audemars book from the library. Way too expensive to buy. Someone needs to inject some sense into this thread. It's too much like late night sophomores fixing the world. Let's have everyone declare the value of their collection and charge linear dues! JJWMD
     
  12. Fortunat Mueller-Maerki

    Fortunat Mueller-Maerki National Library Chair
    NAWCC Star Fellow NAWCC Life Member

    Aug 25, 2000
    1,486
    49
    48
    Male
    Horological Bibliographer -
    Sussex New Jersey USA
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Whoever remarked that the research takes the most time is correct. The frustrating part is that the majority of te research questions could be answered by the questioners themselves if they had access to a modest reference library of a about 100 volumes. In a sizable part of the rest of the questions I would guess that the questioners (assuming he wants to learn something about a timepiece he owns) would be better served if he were given two books to read on the subject rather than just getting an answer. But many are jsut interesed in place and date, i.e. I have this clock it says so and so on the dial, where was it made and when.

    To the best of my knowlwdge LARC is the only specialised horological library in the world that lends by mail. We have a small number of patrons (members)in exotic locales from Israel to Soth Aftrica to New Zealandwho dont mind paying exorbitant postage rates both ways to get access to a book that simply may not be avalable anywhere in their country.

    Providing a lending service to these dedicated horological researchers is one of the key reasons for LARCs existence. That is why the service must stay. It makes Columbia a world-class unique knowledge resource for those who are dedicated to finding (and passing on) horological knowledge.

    Our members should be extremly propud that they support a knwledge perpetuating institution of worldclass standing in its narrow field.

    Fortunat
     
  13. Fortunat Mueller-Maerki

    Fortunat Mueller-Maerki National Library Chair
    NAWCC Star Fellow NAWCC Life Member

    Aug 25, 2000
    1,486
    49
    48
    Male
    Horological Bibliographer -
    Sussex New Jersey USA
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    As for the Message Board replacing some of the services by LARCS reference department that is obviously happening to a large extent.

    I personally would favour steering more of the routine questions to that source of information.

    We should not forget the answer box section of the Bullein either, one more resource, completly independednt and uncoordinated with either LARC or the message board.

    Fortunat
     
  14. kirklox

    kirklox Registered User

    Dec 17, 2002
    1,048
    1
    0
    When the NAWCC learns to be able to use its Member Resources properly and can accept what services they can individually offer no matter how small or large, then and only then will we begin to grow again. The NAWCC Library is the greatest single source of possibilities to grow this organization once again. Using it in conjunction with the Internet Capabilities and those of us that can make the Internet work for us will be a BOON.

    Open discussions, not secret meetings behind closed doors with many ideas can improve our organization. Ideas not ideology will help this organization survive.
     
  15. Bill Ward

    Bill Ward Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Jan 8, 2003
    1,224
    5
    38
    EE (spec. acoustics) now medicine
    USA
    Well said, Fortunat! The lending library was my original reason for joining. And even though I live close enough to Columbia to visit, I feel it would be totally unfair to those many who don't to limit it's use that way.
    Regarding online questions, it must be said that, although the Library staff must feel exaspration at simpleton querys, at least they don't express it; the MBers would have no compunctions about shouting GO GOOGLE, or USE FIND!
     
  16. terry hall

    terry hall Registered User
    NAWCC Brass Member

    Apr 12, 2001
    6,911
    239
    63
    Male
    Central North Carolina
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Re: "USE FIND"

    THIS board does have thousands of posts on 'common' subjects...

    MANY have taken much time to compose those posts and continue to do so......

    WHY can this not be a viable alternative instead of typing the same thing over and over and over and over ?

    I know one respected member has 'boilerplate' responses that are cut and pasted in the board... no problem with that... it is his way of dealing with it.

    The FIND function is a USEFUL tool... not a 'cop out'....
    (and it would be even better if the image database once on the site had been preserved instead of thrown out with the bathwater)

    Give a man a fish, feed him today, TEACH a man to fish, feed him for a lifetime....


    .
     
  17. Mike Kearney

    Mike Kearney Guest

    I've always believed that the library staff researches questions using a very well defined methodology and the world-class resource they have in the NAWCC library. Unlike us on the message board, they don't pick and choose which questions they'll bother to respond to, they do them all. It's a higher 'quality of service' than what the message board offers. I've asked them at least one question, and was impressed with the response.

    Still, information is where you find it. The library staff is certainly welcome to use the message board as a resource. I hope they do today. And I think many message board members would be anxious for the opportunity to help them do research. We might have to raise the quality of our responses (for example, citing the source of our information when responding), but that would improve the quality of the message board for everyone.

    Regards,
    Mike
     
  18. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
    Staff Member NAWCC Star Fellow NAWCC Ruby Member Sponsor

    Aug 24, 2000
    81,786
    1,292
    176
    Male
    retired SW dev
    Boston
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    When someone sends in a research request at this time, it is treated as a confidence and is answered either by one of the staff or one of the volunteers who work at the library.

    The assumption is that the answer can be found in the library.

    Sometimes the Internet has resources that exceed those of the library. This is particularly true for questions involving genealogy. In those cases the staff will sometimes ask another member to volunteer to do the research.

    If research requests to the LARC were going to be routinely posted to the Message Board, we would need to add at least a check box for the requester to say that was OK. Questions themselves convey a lot of information and sometimes the questioner wants that information held in confidence.
     
  19. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
    Staff Member NAWCC Star Fellow NAWCC Ruby Member Sponsor

    Aug 24, 2000
    81,786
    1,292
    176
    Male
    retired SW dev
    Boston
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    As to the utility of the lending service, it looks like our current run rate will exceed 4,000 items this year. That seems like a pretty respectable lending volume to me.

    I am in favor of putting more of our LARC resources on-line. I am also in favor of finding more ways to raise money for the NAWCC. Perhaps we can figure out how to keep those two goals from being in conflict.
     
  20. kirklox

    kirklox Registered User

    Dec 17, 2002
    1,048
    1
    0
    This all looks good on the surface, except for one thing. It is not what the original question asked, which was about BOOKS and Periodicals. Now, breaking that down even further, the mail out loans is probably less than 75 Books and periodicals.

    The lending book list that I am looking at contains over 1800 records, no videos listed.
     
  21. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
    Staff Member NAWCC Star Fellow NAWCC Ruby Member Sponsor

    Aug 24, 2000
    81,786
    1,292
    176
    Male
    retired SW dev
    Boston
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Since I don't know what list you are looking at I can't comment.

    It would appear that the average monthly shipping of books and periodicals is around 70.

    I think the shipping service is a relatively small part of what the LARC does and I also think that DVD's and CD's are an important part of the collection.

    Of course, the most important parts require physical presence of either the questioner or a researcher working for the questioner.

    Did you have a suggestion for improvement?
     
  22. kirklox

    kirklox Registered User

    Dec 17, 2002
    1,048
    1
    0
    I have developed a Program that allows me to make Web Pages out of PDF and DOC files. The PROFESSIONAL Programmers that are working with me and teaching me have made the Lending Library PDF file into a fully functional Web System.

    The system then can be updated by a simple CSV Dump to a Form by limited access.

    This system is similar to my Bibliography and the Chapter 168 Torsion Times Index.

    The only changes from the Original is that it can be sorted Alphabetically by Author or Title for the entire list or kept as Class and Subclass. It is also searchable by Title or Author.

    I offered it for free as a Licensed Program even though it is of limited scope. It is only a small test platform for what Three of us Web Developers are working on.
     
  23. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
    Staff Member NAWCC Star Fellow NAWCC Ruby Member Sponsor

    Aug 24, 2000
    81,786
    1,292
    176
    Male
    retired SW dev
    Boston
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    I don't understand how a different catalog will improve the lending rate for the library? Do you think members don't borrow books because they can't find them?

    I recall Gary Grouse saying that you thought the Winnebago system was too hard for most people to use. I find it pretty easy to use.
    http://www.nawcc.us/winnebago/search/search.asp?resetSearch=1&lib=:???:
     
  24. kirklox

    kirklox Registered User

    Dec 17, 2002
    1,048
    1
    0
    I find search Tools to difficult to use. Most of my friends find them as very difficult.

    I am not going to go into why, just leave it as FACT.
     
  25. kirklox

    kirklox Registered User

    Dec 17, 2002
    1,048
    1
    0
    Tom: I just went to the NAWCC Library Home Page. On there is the Nav Menu. The Lending Library is a 181 KB PDF file for download. The Video lending area is Web Pages showing and describing all the videos for loan.

    I have talked to several Members this week that can not use the Library Search area very good and have problems using PDF files. I would give names, but do not want to embarrass anyone.

    So, it is not just me that has these problems.
     
  26. Todd W

    Todd W Registered User

    Mar 6, 2004
    171
    0
    0
    What's so hard about using the search function at the library? I have a crappie dial up connection and I can do a search in about 30 seconds.
    Todd W
     
  27. Mike Kearney

    Mike Kearney Guest

    I hate the way pdf files work in my browser. It's slow and often hangs the browser. Browsers and pdf files just don't work well together, in my opinion. Maybe that's the problem Sam's referring to.

    If it is, I have a suggestion. When you find a link to a pdf file you want to read, instead of left mouse clicking on it as you usually would, right mouse click on it. Then at the popup you can left click on 'Save target as', which saves the pdf to a location on your PC, without opening it in your browser. You can save the pdf on the desktop or in a folder. Then when you're ready to view it, just double click on the file you saved, and the Acrobat viewer will open it without the browser getting involved. Yes it's an extra step, but you were probably going to want to save the pdf file on your PC anyway.

    So again, for IE users, it's right click on the pdf link and then left click on 'Save Target as'. For Firefox users it's right click on the link and left click on 'Save Link As'. Here's a link to try. Right click on it:

    http://www.nawcc.org/Library/Lending%20Library%202005.pdf

    If you want you can change the options on your browser so that it always downloads the pdf and never uses the plugin. I'll post on how to do that if anybody wants, or maybe someone else can.

    Hope this helps.

    Regards,
    Mike
     
  28. kirklox

    kirklox Registered User

    Dec 17, 2002
    1,048
    1
    0
    Mike: I have Adobe Acrobat 7.0 Standard.

    There are a lot of us Old Timers that do not and they do not know how to use it. They do have computers but use them mostly for email. Little else.

    Todd: If I was a parapalegic and told everyone here that I could not walk up stairs. Would you be so nosey to question why. BUT just for your benefit. I was in a TERRIBLE CAR WRECK and had a massive closed head injury. I have recovered a lot and this computer has helped tremendously, but my memory still has holes in it big enough to drive a Mack truck through. At least I TRY.
     
  29. Jon Hanson

    Jon Hanson Registered User
    NAWCC Member Golden Circle

    Aug 24, 2000
    17,647
    106
    63
    Male
    Boston, Ma.
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    #29 Jon Hanson, Oct 19, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 7, 2017
    There has been considerable whining about over extended staff time and resources; plus, much book damage could be spared without mailing them out.

    This is not political--it was just a suggestion!
     
  30. Todd W

    Todd W Registered User

    Mar 6, 2004
    171
    0
    0
    #30 Todd W, Oct 19, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 7, 2017

    What dose this have to do with using the library?
     
  31. Wayne C. Anderson

    Wayne C. Anderson Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Dec 20, 2001
    933
    0
    16
    I also find search Tools to difficult to use.
     
  32. kirklox

    kirklox Registered User

    Dec 17, 2002
    1,048
    1
    0
    #32 kirklox, Oct 19, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 7, 2017
    Now, why should this make it easy for me to use?
     
  33. Jon Hanson

    Jon Hanson Registered User
    NAWCC Member Golden Circle

    Aug 24, 2000
    17,647
    106
    63
    Male
    Boston, Ma.
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Wayne, I, too, find it virtually worthless.
     
  34. zepernick

    zepernick Deceased

    Aug 8, 2004
    2,602
    6
    0
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    The HB Message Board is not a forum to discuss NAWCC or LARC policies, nor is it an appropriate one. Could you please take it elsewhere? Regards, Duck
     
  35. Mike Kearney

    Mike Kearney Guest

  36. kirklox

    kirklox Registered User

    Dec 17, 2002
    1,048
    1
    0
    Keith: With what Tom just said and correcting your spelling of the Key Words, you may be able to find something. Or you could go to my "Special Project" and look through the Titles in the Bibliography to see if there is something you might be interested in and then check to see if it is in the NAWCC Lending Library Search.

    The real problem with all of this is that most NAWCC Members are not Computer Literate!
     
  37. Jon Hanson

    Jon Hanson Registered User
    NAWCC Member Golden Circle

    Aug 24, 2000
    17,647
    106
    63
    Male
    Boston, Ma.
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Education seems to be getting confused with politics and policy.

    Books are educational and the nawcc through whatever means SHOULD make research tools easily available for its members.
     
  38. kirklox

    kirklox Registered User

    Dec 17, 2002
    1,048
    1
    0
    Fortunat; I have to laugh about all the shenanigans. In the last few days we have brought more awareness to the lending library than all the other sourses have in the last year. If you desire to make the NAWCC Library more visible you could take and design web pages to present each and ever book by Title and Author.
     
  39. kirklox

    kirklox Registered User

    Dec 17, 2002
    1,048
    1
    0
    I would dare to say that is the #1 means by which Members borrow books.

    I would also say the Mart is a limited Resourse and very expensive especially when you consider what a full page ad costs.
     
  40. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
    Staff Member NAWCC Star Fellow NAWCC Ruby Member Sponsor

    Aug 24, 2000
    81,786
    1,292
    176
    Male
    retired SW dev
    Boston
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Keith, When searching any resource, you should start with the broadest possible search. For example just search for fusee. It that returns too many hits to process then add additional words to the search to narrow it.

    This is the standard technique for all search structures, not just the library catalog.

    The text of the material is not indexed, only the titles and a few key words. Getting a more powerful index requires human effort such as the community based Wiki tools.
     
  41. Fortunat Mueller-Maerki

    Fortunat Mueller-Maerki National Library Chair
    NAWCC Star Fellow NAWCC Life Member

    Aug 25, 2000
    1,486
    49
    48
    Male
    Horological Bibliographer -
    Sussex New Jersey USA
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    The catalog of the library is also on line at
    http://65.121.222.23/winnebago/search/search.asp
    where you can find which titel is among the 10'000 books we carry.

    Check the "Copies" section if the Library has 2 or more copies, only about 3000 Titels with multiple copies are available for lending,
    :)

    the others have to be consulted on site.

    :frown:

    FortunatMueller-Maerki, Sussex NJ

    NAWCC Life # 174
    Chair, NWCM Library and Research Center Committee


    You can reach me at horology@horology.com
     
  42. peg leg

    peg leg Guest

    OK, I'm lost as Hogans goat on lending library. I went to lending library and entered in search for the following:

    English Verge Fusse's (no records found)
    English Lever Fusses's (no records found)
    Early American Key winds (no records found)

    I have to believe the lending library contains informatiion associated with my general search. What am I doing wrong:???:

    Keith R.
    NAWCC 163409
     
  43. Mike Kearney

    Mike Kearney Guest

    Do you think they find the library listings in the back of the Mart helpful?

    Regards,
    Mike
     
  44. Mike Kearney

    Mike Kearney Guest

    Having said I find pdf files to be hard to use, at least in browsers, I wonder if the library list pdf could also be offered as a text file or in html. It would just be a different link. I know at my day job we offer links to manuals in pdf and html, and I always select html.

    I understand that resources are streched now and the effort to do that may be prohibitive. But if it's not, and if some people would rather view it as one long page, it might be worth a try.

    Regards,
    Mike
     
  45. zepernick

    zepernick Deceased

    Aug 8, 2004
    2,602
    6
    0
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Who moved these replies? They're now out of order (from the separate threads they were originally in) and comments that were, so to speak, in order do not make much sense. Or less sense. Duck
     
  46. Fortunat Mueller-Maerki

    Fortunat Mueller-Maerki National Library Chair
    NAWCC Star Fellow NAWCC Life Member

    Aug 25, 2000
    1,486
    49
    48
    Male
    Horological Bibliographer -
    Sussex New Jersey USA
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Duck

    The Message Board Administrator for each area has the ability (and the authority) to move messages that have been posted into an inappropriate thread to the correct thread.

    I do not know what has prompted these particular moves.

    Fortunat
     
  47. Bill Ward

    Bill Ward Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Jan 8, 2003
    1,224
    5
    38
    EE (spec. acoustics) now medicine
    USA
     
  48. zepernick

    zepernick Deceased

    Aug 8, 2004
    2,602
    6
    0
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    Thanks Fortunat and Mike. We're fine with it here.
    Regards, Duck
     
  49. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
    Staff Member NAWCC Star Fellow NAWCC Ruby Member Sponsor

    Aug 24, 2000
    81,786
    1,292
    176
    Male
    retired SW dev
    Boston
    Country Flag:
    Region Flag:
    I think when we talk about searches many people think of Google or Yahoo or my favorite GoodSearch ;).

    With all these facilities, guesses are made on spelling errors and empty words are discarded to improve the search. They are semi-intelligent search engines. Winnebago is not an advanced search engine but it is a reasonable example and very similar to the one the message board or eBay have.

    I don't know much about Bibliographia Horologiae Mundi, but I hope it will have provision for commentaries to eventually develop community based annotated bibliographies. If and when such commentaries are indexed, it will be much easier to locate specific material from a blind search like the one above. And, we won't need to worry about copyright.
     
  50. kirklox

    kirklox Registered User

    Dec 17, 2002
    1,048
    1
    0
    #50 kirklox, Oct 20, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 7, 2017
    Here is a short list of books. As Richard said in one of his earlier posts, it is very difficult to find useful information from/or by doing a Title or Author search. Only by adding Key Words and short commentaries about each would there be a means of identifying whether they would cover the information you desire or even the subject you are interested in. None of this list is copyrighted. It is public information.

    The question becomes "How long would it take me to annotate every book on my "Bibliography?"


     

Share This Page