Large Brass Clock For Your Perusal

Discussion in 'General Clock Discussions' started by TheTickTockDoc, Jul 30, 2020.

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  1. TheTickTockDoc

    TheTickTockDoc Registered User
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    Oct 9, 2009
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    Hello Friends:

    Any of you who have been doing this a while, probably appreciate it when a customer drops off an unusual clock. Today...this! I believe that it is solid brass. 20" dial. The customer wants me to replace the movement with a quartz chiming unit with chime rods. Not a problem. I will also convert and use the original hands. She didn't know much about it as it was her dad's clock. She said it may have come out of a bank. Thought that all of you would like to see it. Of course, if you know anything about it, I would appreciate the information. Best regards, Rich

    IMG_2041.JPG IMG_2042.JPG IMG_2043.JPG IMG_2044.JPG IMG_2045.JPG
     
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  2. bruce linde

    bruce linde Technical Admin
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    Nov 13, 2011
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    if you can, secure the original movement inside the case so that all the pieces stay together. It already looks like it’s powered… I guess she wants the chimes… Too bad.
     
  3. rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

    rmarkowitz1_cee4a1 Registered User
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    Nov 26, 2009
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    It was probably a clock in a public place like a bank, a lobby of an office building, etc.

    The movement is clearly marked "Self Winding Clock Co.". It was probably one of a number of "slaves" driven by a master clock.

    It was never meant to chime.

    Replace with a hokey quartz chiming unit? I can already hear all the rationalizations justifying that.

    RM
     
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  4. bangster

    bangster Moderator
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    What the customer wants, the customer gets.
     
  5. bruce linde

    bruce linde Technical Admin
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    Nov 13, 2011
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    yes... but there's no reason not to keep the original movement (and value) with the clock... and plenty of room. i would secure the old movement inside the case, take a photo, and explain to the client that it's the best of both worlds.
     
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  6. rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

    rmarkowitz1_cee4a1 Registered User
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    I rest my case.

    RM
     
  7. Jim DuBois

    Jim DuBois Registered User
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    Jun 14, 2008
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    The movement that was in the clock had already been heavily botched up. It has a synchronized motor up at the top of the train that has been driving what was left of the old slave movement. A quartz chiming movement is certainly no improvement, but it is not making it a lot worse. But a chiming movement in a bronze "tin can" case should be really melodious.
     
  8. bruce linde

    bruce linde Technical Admin
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    Nov 13, 2011
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    right... but the movement should not be lost or simply thrown out. there is no cost or disadvantage to stashing in the case, so why not? when this client's heirs go to sell it on eBay, being able to provide the original movement.... shlocked up or not... .will allow them to get more for it... and the right collector would enjoy getting it back to the way it was supposed to be.
     
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  9. Jeremy Woodoff

    Jeremy Woodoff Registered User
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    Jun 30, 2002
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    This wasn't a slave clock, but a fully independent movement. The escape wheel, probably 60-tooth, was where the synchronous motor is, and the anchor was held by a small cock, now missing from the front plate--the holes for it are visible. Self-Winding did make master and slave systems, but the slave movements were quite different. There are lots of loose Self-Winding movements out there; this one could be restored or another installed in this case. The movements were often swapped out for maintenance by the Self-Winding Clock Co. I would suggest a restored or replaced correct movement for this magnificent case, with a quartz chiming movement installed inside the case to provide the desired chime. The batteries for the self-winding mechanism wouldn't have to be changed any more often than the battery for the quartz movement.
     
  10. gleber

    gleber Registered User

    Jun 15, 2015
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    Anyone can predict the sun will shine in the daytime. :cool:

    Tom
     
  11. jkfabulos

    jkfabulos Registered User

    Aug 21, 2001
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    This is the Self Winding Clock Co Camden circa 1908 and could very easily be restored to running condition. As previously mentioned lots of parts and or complete movements available for this "F"
    style movement.
    Restored it is worth considerably more that botched together with some Chinese plastic chiming movement. Once you modify the hands which are very important it will be much more difficult to restore.
    If you explain to her it would make sense to sell it and take the profit to buy some modern chiming clock that suits her fancy and pocket the difference.
    There are several collectors that would love to have this scarce example. Similar clocks sell for over $500.00
     
  12. gleber

    gleber Registered User

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    There's seem to be a few things about the dial and movement that don't add up to me.

    The movement has a seconds arbor, but the dial does not have a hole for a seconds hand. I supposed that could have been an option that was not selected?

    The holes/screws in back of the dial around the middle don't seem to match anything on the movement. What are they for?

    The 4 round-head screws on the front of the dial just ruin it for me. It seems they would would have found a better way to attach the dial than mess it up like that. The screws just don't go with the rest of the case design/fit/finish. But is also seems like the clock was designed to be two faced. The back of the base has scroll work like the front - why unless it was two faced? Maybe the screws would make sense if it has to be "closed up" from the outside?

    I also wonder if the numbers or hands were plated or painted some other color? As it is, even though it looks huge compared to the clocks in the background, brass hands on an all brass dial would be hard to read unless you were up close, but the clock does seem to be designed for a large space?

    My conclusion is that this is some type of marriage.

    Tom
     
  13. rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

    rmarkowitz1_cee4a1 Registered User
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    Nov 26, 2009
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    In which case who then cares what movement is put in there, I guess?

    Another thought was that this clock once had a wind-up mechanical movement but at some point "electrified" as sometimes happened. However, no place for a winding arbor so unlikely.

    RM
     
  14. Jeremy Woodoff

    Jeremy Woodoff Registered User
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    The Self-Winding Catalog shows two similar models, the Camden and Lyons, although I think the names of the Camden and Trojan might have been reversed. At any event, this case design was available in either carved wood or bronze, and any style of dial could be had, and either single or double dials. It could be mounted as a pendant or pediment clock. The dial on this clock had silvered or gilded Arabic figures, and from the catalog illustration, it appears the bronze background had a darker patina. The dial would have been easy to read. These models were available either with 120-beat movements (the style F, the remains of which are present) or slave movements, and they didn't have seconds bits, as this type of public clock typically wouldn't, but this is the same movement used in many other Self-Winding clocks that did include seconds indication.
     
  15. bangster

    bangster Moderator
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    What the customer wants, the customer should get. Unless persuaded otherwise, paying attention to the price differential between quartz and restoration.
     
  16. Tim Orr

    Tim Orr National Membership Chair
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    Good afternoon, Rich!

    Sure wish your customer would consider allowing the clock to be placed in a good home where it might be appreciated for the horological artifact that it is. You truly do see lots and lots of SWCC clocks, but damned few of these. Maybe she could be introduced to a buyer with better taste.

    At very least, I hope you are able to make all the changes 100 percent reversible.

    Best regards!

    Tim Orr
     
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  17. TheTickTockDoc

    TheTickTockDoc Registered User
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    This customer is a clock collector as was her father. She has a pretty sizable collection. I think that if the clock was more valuable (someone mentioned $500), I might be able to convince her to sell it and leave it as it is. Unfortunately, her father picked this one up somewhere, so there is some sentimental value. I will not cut or drill this case. I will keep the movement stored inside the case. I should be able to attache a quartz movement to the back of the dial without drilling, etc. I will have to convert the hands (as I have done thousands of times) to fit the new hand shaft by removing the hand bushings and using two part epoxy to attach new hand bushings. I will try and save the old hand bushings and leave those in the case as well. Thanks to all for the comments, concerns and suggestions. I was surprised as to how many were involved with this post. Best regards, Rich
     
  18. Tim Orr

    Tim Orr National Membership Chair
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    Good afternoon, Rich!

    I do hope, at least, that you are able to find a quartz movement that's suitable that doesn't "tick"!

    Best regards!

    Tim Orr
     

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