Large Bracket Clock Case im trying to date.

[Silverdialsteve]

Hello everybody. I have this lovely Bracket Clock Case that I'm trying to date so I can then hunt down a dial and movement to fit it. I have found some information on the spandrels and they list them as late 17th early 18th century (crown and boys) but don't think it's as old as that. Maybe they were old spandrels fitted to a later clock. I think it's possibly 1790 to 1810 but if anyone could give me their view it would be much appreciated
Many thanks Steve

 

[Silverdialsteve]

Hello everybody. I have this lovely Bracket Clock Case that I'm trying to date so I can then hunt down a dial and movement to fit it. I have found some information on the spandrels and they list them as late 17th early 18th century (crown and boys) but don't think it's as old as that. Maybe they were old spandrels fitted to a later clock. I think it's possibly 1790 to 1810 but if anyone could give me their view it would be much appreciated
Many thanks Steve View attachment 682884 View attachment 682885 View attachment 682887 View attachment 682888

The case stands at 21 inches high with turned wooden feet and what looks like walnut veneer.

 

[zedric]

I have a feeling this might be a reproduction case made around the late 19th or early 20th century. The spandrels don’t match the time that these cases were first made (mid 1700s) but could be replaced, but then the back door style also does not match, and would have had clear glass all over to show off the engraving on the back of the movement. The lancet shaped windows on the side were more common in the late Victorian era…

Is the veneer all over or just on the front? Does the back door appear to be original (does the wood match).

 

[Alex KVASHIN]

on the back where screw hole are spiral gong was fixed.
I don't see any sign where movement was fixed to case.

 

[novicetimekeeper]

I agree with Zedric, I think this is a bit of a muddle of styles and is much later than it pretends to be. It has the door style of an Ellicott case but not so well done, those were late 18th C, the stepped top is reminiscent of Regency styles around 1820, the gothic side windows perhaps another 30 years after that.

The foot shape and the spandrels applied to the front date from around 1700 but the feet would have been brass and nobody ever put those spandrels on the outside of an Ellicott door as far as I'm aware. You do see some of that on French clocks but not those spandrels.

If it had a spiral gong that puts it more after the middle of the 19th but I think it could be much later than that. What woods are used, is it veneered or solid?

 

[Silverdialsteve]

I have a feeling this might be a reproduction case made around the late 19th or early 20th century. The spandrels don’t match the time that these cases were first made (mid 1700s) but could be replaced, but then the back door style also does not match, and would have had clear glass all over to show off the engraving on the back of the movement. The lancet shaped windows on the side were more common in the late Victorian era…

Is the veneer all over or just on the front? Does the back door appear to be original (does the wood match).

Hello and thank you for your reply. It does look like veneer all over to me as there are a few places where it's chipped.. The back door I think ( now you mentioned it) has been replaced as the inside wood looks brighter.. And totally agree that the spandrels have just been added to jazz up the look of the case at some time. I may remove the spandrels to see how it looks. .

 

[Silverdialsteve]

I agree with Zedric, I think this is a bit of a muddle of styles and is much later than it pretends to be. It has the door style of an Ellicott case but not so well done, those were late 18th C, the stepped top is reminiscent of Regency styles around 1820, the gothic side windows perhaps another 30 years after that.

The foot shape and the spandrels applied to the front date from around 1700 but the feet would have been brass and nobody ever put those spandrels on the outside of an Ellicott door as far as I'm aware. You do see some of that on French clocks but not those spandrels.

If it had a spiral gong that puts it more after the middle of the 19th but I think it could be much later than that. What woods are used, is it veneered or solid?

Hello. Thank you very much for your reply. It looks like veneer all over to me.. The back door looks like it has been replaced as the wood looks lighter and the spandrels to me now look like they have been added to jazz up the case.. I can't tell if it had a spiral gong as there seems to be nothing mounted to the inside of the case but it does look like there was a pull repeater at one time as there is a hole on the back.. Thank you again for your help it's much appreciated. Steve

 

[Silverdialsteve]

on the back where screw hole are spiral gong was fixed.
I don't see any sign where movement was fixed to case.

Hello. Thank you for your reply. The seat board has 2 holes in it. As you look from the front, 1 on the back left and one on the front right. I see where the screw hole is now on the back for the spiral gong etc but think the back has been replaced at some time as the wood is much lighter. Coming to the conclusion now that it's been modified over the years. Many thanks Steve

 

[Silverdialsteve]

Hello. Thank you very much for your reply. It looks like veneer all over to me.. The back door looks like it has been replaced as the wood looks lighter and the spandrels to me now look like they have been added to jazz up the case.. I can't tell if it had a spiral gong as there seems to be nothing mounted to the inside of the case but it does look like there was a pull repeater at one time as there is a hole on the back.. Thank you again for your help it's much appreciated. Steve

Hello
Me again. Where the hole is that I mentioned a pull repeater it was probably a gong but I do still think the back has been replaced. . Many thanks Steve

 

[Mike Phelan]

Pull repeaters were generally before the gong era - pre-1870.

 

[novicetimekeeper]

Pull repeaters were generally before the gong era - pre-1870.

Coiled gongs were used in France in the early part of the 19thC and may go back even further. They don't tend to appear in English clocks until after the middle of the 19thC.

True pull repeat, where the cord winds a spring, was not really in use by turn of the 18th/19th century, the cords you see then are for trip repeat.

I think this case is much later than any of these developments.

 

[Silverdialsteve]

Coiled gongs were used in France in the early part of the 19thC and may go back even further. They don't tend to appear in English clocks until after the middle of the 19thC.

True pull repeat, where the cord winds a spring, was not really in use by turn of the 18th/19th century, the cords you see then are for trip repeat.

I think this case is much later than any of these developments.

Thank you. I have a feeling that it's a bit of a mix and match case. Some parts older that others. I have removed the spandrels now and it looks better.. I think the front door is the oldest part and the rest later. Here is it without the spandrels. Many thanks Steve

 

[novicetimekeeper]

I don't think the style of veneering is how the early ellicot cases were done, they had the veneer in sections like slices of cake.

 

[Silverdialsteve]

I don't think the style of veneering is how the early ellicot cases were done, they had the veneer in sections like slices of cake.

Yes you probably correct. Some people in this forum mentioned that it looks like an Ellicot, I'm just learning and listening. What ever it is it has some history and when cleaned up and with a dial and movement it should look great. Hopefully anyway. Many thanks for your reply. Steve