Lanterndluhr Reproduction, how old and who made it

[Dr. Jon]

Here is the clock as set up, and, now running. I posted some issues I encountered while overhauling it. It survived my efforts and is now running.

The dial comnprises two ceramic parts with the seconds track applied on top of the glaze. The dial parts are secured to a frame with screws and tabs. The ferrule is secured behind the dial with a sheet metal slide lock into a groove in the metal.

Here is the case and mounts.

The back plate is marked 1804.

I did a gear count which I cannot find now but it estimated the run time at two months.

The case seems very well made.

Does anyone recognize any parts of this clock?

 

[Bernhard J.]

Looks lovely! Why do you think that it is a "reproduction"?

 

[Dr. Jon]

I do not know what to think on this.

I suspect the case is new and the movement old made up from old parts.

The reason I refer to it as a reproduction is because that is how the seller described it.

It has glass that is not old but the work on the case is meticulous . It is very similar the level seen in American reproduction banjo clocks by well regarded redproducers such as Elmer Stennes and Foster Campos.

The movement showed many signs of having been serviced many times. Teh screw heads were not in good shape and I re-finished them. One of thelimiters has a slot milled out evidently from its crutch being badly misaligned.

I suspect the cructh plate is an adaptation since it has two intiails which are partially milled away. By coincidence they are my initials. I did not notice that until I looked at the pictures I have taken of it.

Its gear train has very high tooth counts and the pallets are very pure Viennese so I beleive the movement is probably at least as old the later Vienna regulators.

 

[wisty]

Sorry, can't help with the movement, but I have a couple of what are reputed to be mid 20th century reproductions with very very similar case work.

The one on the left is a year going timepiece with a case almost exactly the same as yours. It was sold to me (in about 2005) as a one off "masterpiece of design" believed to have been made around 1970. The dial is one piece enamel and is signed (under the glaze I think) for P Siemeth in Wien. Claterbos has a Paul Siemeth with the annotations W.M 1811 † 7 Apr 1839, but the case woodwork looks far too clean and modern to be 200 years old.

The one on the right is a two month going timepiece signed on the dial for Lonsdale & Snelling 010. They were a clock retailer in the mid to late 20th Century who made some clocks but mainly imported high end ones from Germany, possibly from Sattler who are still in business (www.erwinsattler.com)

The casework on both is almost identical and of very high quality. If I were a betting man I would say they both came from the same source.

I have seen passing comments on the internet when researching both clocks (unsuccessfully) that in the mid 20th century Sattler - who started up in 1958 - sold kits for individuals to assemble. I have not been able to find anything definite, but I have a suspicion that both of mine are from that source. The year going may have been based on an original dial and beat plate - and possibly movement. The two month going is definitely a reproduction from the 1970's or 1980's.

I have never had either apart, so I have no pictures of the movements.

I hope this helps.

 

[Dr. Jon]

I have seen a few Sattler Vienna replicas and I have built one of their kits.
The Sattler Vienna reproductions I have seen do not look much like these.

I think mine is a two month and its pulley looks like the Lonsdale and Snelling as does the pendulum but mine is not as well made

 

[wisty]

Did Sattler provide cases in the kit, or were they sourced elsewhere?

 

[Dr. Jon]

My kit came with a case and oil to rub in. The US dealer wrote me that the oil finish does does not last so I used a water based urethane. The case was otherwise ready to go. They did provide everything to finish teh case with the oil they provided. The clock is a month going with a 72 beatt per minute train with a compensated invar pendulum. I bought it about 10 years ago.

My clock makers source their cases from others. One maker I visited told me that wood work and clock makign do not mix and must be kept well separated.

The current kit clocks are very nice.

I suspect the made the repro Vienna regulators much earlier than the current kits.

The examples of Sattler reproduction lanterndluhrs do not look at all like mine but they have made a lot of clocks in many styles and their quality is very good.

 

[Dr. Jon]

Here is close view of the dial

here is an enhanced view of the marks at the left

There is number, 338, scratched on the right side
I looked into Lonsdale and Snelling. They now are an auction house but their site does have some sale archives.

 

[Dr. Jon]

I did some more looking around. I found a Fritz Saller clock with a very similar movement. Saller seems to have been a retailer since the other item I found with his name is a carraige clock, so that movement was probably made by someone else, but it dates to about 1850.

I anm also curious about the ferrule over teh winding hole. I found that most two piece dials had such a ferrule.

 

[wisty]

Three of my two piece enamel dials (one French, two German) have ferrules over the winding holes. One German one doesn't.
I would guess one (or both) of two reasons.
1) To protect the enamel round the dial hole from damage when inserting the key and winding - several of my single piece dials show evidence of chipping round the winding hole.
2) To cover up the edges of the winding holes and hide any production flaws. I think the edges of the plate (covered by the bezel) and the edges of the holes where the enamel ends would be the most likely places to exhibit flaws and cracks after firing. It would have been cheaper to fit bezels to the dial centres than junk items that did not fire perfectly.
Probably implemented by production for reason 2) but sold by marketing as reason 1). But then I am a cynic!

 

[Dr. Jon]

I think the dial on mine is old but repurposed. The seconds track looks to be applied over and is probbaly later and the hole was drilled to accomodate this movement. There was no chipping on this hole which argues that the ferrule is probably to protect the winding hole from teh key.

I suspect this is why most of the glass dials I have found have these, but I am new to this being primarily in to watches,