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Kundo anniversary help

tlojak41

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May 4, 2013
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hello everyone. i got an anniversary clock at a yard sale for $5, brought it home and started researching it, and i think i have a kundo anniversary clock. so, i started tearing it apart to clean and restore it. ive run into a little problem, and need some help. when i was taking it apart, i took a small pin out of the shaft that holds the minute hand on, removed the hand. now im putting it back together, and the hour hand has all kind of play to it, and i cant find the hole the pin goes in to hold the minute hand down, and further more, the hand mounts flush with the end of the shaft, so there is no room for a pin. i am completely confused as i know i took a pin out to remove the hand, and there was no play in the mechanism that holds the hour hand. if i can figure out how to get pics from my phone to here i will post some pics on here. please help if you understand what im trying to explain as the problems. this is my first time doing this, but i have a few clocks ive collected that need some attention. also, i think i have the addiction now. :D thanks for any help, and again, if i can, ill post pics.
 

shutterbug

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The hour wheel is not engaged correctly. It needs to engage the minute wheel correctly, and then it will go on further. If you can post some close-ups of the front of the movement we might be able to see what's wrong :)
 

shutterbug

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On your third picture, you show the front plate without the minute arbor. That clip comes off, and the hour cannon (pic 4) goes on over the minute arbor, and engages that pinion. The clip holds it in place.
 

tlojak41

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May 4, 2013
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On your third picture, you show the front plate without the minute arbor. That clip comes off, and the hour cannon (pic 4) goes on over the minute arbor, and engages that pinion. The clip holds it in place.
the way it came apart, pic 4 has the minute gear. that slide into the hour gear that is still on the face of the clock. it is square cut for the minute hand to fit on. i thought thats where the pin went thru, but can find a hole. ill put it together and take another pic and show you how it fits together. oh, and the plate with the gear on it with the clip. i never removed that. i dont believe i need to to reassemble it.
 

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shutterbug

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This is a different manufacturer, but make it look like this and you've got it :) IMG_2358.jpg
 

Tony10Clocks

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Aug 10, 2010
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This might give you an idea of the setup. It's not a Kundo but it's the same setup. Instead of a pin holding the minute hand on this one uses a nut
P5090037.jpg P5090038.jpg
Looks like we had the same thought Shutt.......................
 

tlojak41

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May 4, 2013
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ok, i got it. i was starting to assemble and realized that one of the gears has a rod that goes up through the minute hand gear that has the hole for the pin in it. same setup as the picture above . but like the tony said, same setup, but his uses a nut rather than pin. now i hope everything else goes smooth. thanks for the help.
 

shutterbug

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You're well on the way to a successful repair, tlojak. Let us know if we can assist further, and be sure to let us know when you have it completed and running!
 

tlojak41

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May 4, 2013
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Well, is running now but got another problem. The hands arent moving. I have it wound some to check to see if it worked, but I didnt wind it the whole way. Any ideas? Thanks.
 

shutterbug

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How easily do the hands move? If VERY easy, then you lost or forgot a tension washer. Let us know. It might not require taking it apart again :) Also be sure the wheels don't turn with the hands when you turn them. If that happens, you have it put together wrong.
 

tlojak41

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May 4, 2013
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Ok, when I move the hands the gears that are directlybin contact with the hands move, but the others on the other side of the plate dont. Now, the thrust washers. Are they really small, and thin, one being flat, and the other wavy? If so, I didnt pu them in. When I took this apart, I found hem glued to the back of the fac with grease and not connected to anything so I left them out thinking someone was in this clock before and left them behind. If anyone could tell me where and how these go, and if they will start the hands again, I would be ever so grateful! Thanks.
 

Tony10Clocks

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I forgot to put the tension washers on, in my previous post. Here they are
P5100039.jpg P5100040.jpg
 

marylander

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Ok, when I move the hands the gears that are directlybin contact with the hands move, but the others on the other side of the plate dont. Now, the thrust washers. Are they really small, and thin, one being flat, and the other wavy? If so, I didnt pu them in. When I took this apart, I found hem glued to the back of the fac with grease and not connected to anything so I left them out thinking someone was in this clock before and left them behind. If anyone could tell me where and how these go, and if they will start the hands again, I would be ever so grateful! Thanks.
Tlojak41, If you have two washers, one flat and one wavy, you need to put flat in first (it will rest on a step on the center wheel rod) and then put the wavy washer (tension washer) in with the bottom of the curve against the flat washer. After that you put in the minute hand pinion and the hour hand wheel. The two ends of the wavy washer (tension washer) should be against the minute hand pinion. So, when you press in the minute hand, you will see the spring effect of the wavy washer (tension washer). Hope this help.
Ming
 

tlojak41

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May 4, 2013
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ok, not sure i know what you are saying, im new to this and you are using terms im not familiar with, and the pics arent very helpful, my setup is different than that. sorry, not trying to be a pain, but just not sure what you are saying. i will try to post a pic of my movement so you guys can see what i need to do.
 

MartinM

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Jun 24, 2011
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Remove the dial and all the stuff on the front of the movement.
(You need to remove that clip on the intermediate gear; but can leave the gear on, if you like.)
Slide the small washer onto the center wheel shaft
Slide the curved washer on next with the pointed ends going toward the washer you just put on.
(Ming said to do it the other way; but that can cause the points to get in trouble on some clocks.)
Slide the long pipe with the gear on it next, with the gear touching the bent washer
Install the intermediate gear on it's pin with the big gear facing the movement
Slide the last gear over the pipe and mesh it to the intermediate gear
Install the 'e' clip on the intermediate gear pin.
(If the clip isn't removed as stated, above, you can't get the gear past the clip with the clock assembled)
Replace the dial and hands
Install the convex brass washer, if it's got one
Install the taper pin to hold the hands.
That's it!
 
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tlojak41

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May 4, 2013
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Ok I got the washers back on and put back together, and the hands move!!! Thanks so much for the help! Ok now, it doesnt stay running, and the suspension spring looks to be about 1/2 inch too short. How do I find out the size of the spring so I can order one, and any ideas as to why it stops? Before I fixed the hands, it ran for 7 hours and didnt stop. Now I only get 15 minutes out of it. Thanks for any ideas. Oh, and I had the main spring cleaned and relubed. I dont have the tool to take the spring out of the barrel..........yet
 

Tinker Dwight

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Hi
The suspension spring being short will not cause it to stop.
Did you put it in beat first? If not that needs to be done.
These clocks are quite fussy about being in beat.
You'll need to give the folks here a full shot of the
back plate before thay can tell you what spring to order.
Remove any spring guard first before taking the picture.
Tinker Dwight
 

tlojak41

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May 4, 2013
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Ok please dont laugh, but how do you put it in beat? Im just learning this. Ill take a pic of the back and post it when I get home from work. I think there used to be a guard on the back, but its not there anymore. What makes me say that is here are 3 small scews there that arent doing anything. Thanks.
 

lmester

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Ok please dont laugh, but how do you put it in beat? Im just learning this. Ill take a pic of the back and post it when I get home from work. I think there used to be a guard on the back, but its not there anymore. What makes me say that is here are 3 small scews there that arent doing anything. Thanks.
Here is a document with instructions for beat setting. There is also a paper protractor wheel that you can print out to help with measuring the beat.

http://www.anniversaryclocks.org/aci/rotation.pdf


Also, you said it was running before you fixed the hands. Is it possible that something is binding there? A quick check would be to pull the taper pin back out and let the hands hang loose on the center wheel arbor. See if it starts running again.
 

MartinM

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Jun 24, 2011
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Almost all KundO standard size clocks take a 0.0032 inch spring. Most of the miniature clocks take a .0023 inch. Yours is the former.
 

MartinM

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Re: my last post. The sizes referenced are for Horolovar springs.
 

John Hubby

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here is the back of the clock. hope it helps!:)
Tiojak, I notice that the winding click and ratchet parts are not present on the movement. There should be a ratchet gear on the mainspring arbor winding shaft held in place with a horizontal bridge part, a click pivoted on a screw to hold the ratchet, and a click spring to keep the click forced into the ratchet teeth. Those parts would be mounted with screws in the empty threaded holes to the left and below the winding arbor. Have you taken them off to service the clock or are they missing? If missing you won't be able to wind the clock.
 

tlojak41

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May 4, 2013
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They are there, they are just on the other side of the barrel. As far as I can tell from taking it apart, everything is where it needs to be and is in place, unless someone was in here before and messed something up.
 

tlojak41

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May 4, 2013
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ok, ive ordered new suspension springs. i want to have a fresh one on when i try to set the beat. my question right now is what do i adjust to set the beat? is it the impulse pin? if so, i may have screwed that up when i took the clock apart. i saw it wasnt straight, so i straightened it! lol. live and learn. if not, what gets adjusted? im so close to finishing my first clock! thanks for any help.
 

saskjoe

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I remember sitting and staring at my first 400 day, a 1949 or so JUF wondering the same thing. I too straightened the anchor pin ( it also needed tightening on it's threads). By reading this forum and looking at other online articles I found you just rotate the uppermost support that the top block fits into. I was never so close to giving myself a forehead slap, but hey, I wasn't used to the idea of a rotating pendulum at the time either. Best regards, Joe.
 

Tinker Dwight

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Oct 11, 2010
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Look for the drop in either dirrection. The pin should make
the same angle on either side of vertical. It doesn't have to
be dead nuts on but should be as close as can be set by eye.
As was mentioned, you rotate the mount of the upper block is in to
set the beat.
Good luck.
Tinker Dwight
 

tlojak41

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May 4, 2013
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Ok, I got impatient and decided to see if I could even get this thing in beat. I know im going to have to redo it once I put the new spring on, but went ahead anyway. So, I figured id eye it up and give it a go. 12 hours later its still going. I think I did a pretty good job eyeing it up and marking spots with my fingers! Thanks for all the help guys. I really appreciate it.
 

shutterbug

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Good job. :thumb: Now on to the next! :D
 

tlojak41

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May 4, 2013
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ok, replaced the suspension spring, set the sweep as close as i could, and now its running slow! lol. i was told to put the adjuster on the weights in the middle, and im not quite in the middle, a little on the slow side. ill guess ill keep adjusting until i get it right. i just hope it gets right, before i replaced the spring, i couldnt get it slowed down, even with the adjuster at the slowest setting, but the new spring is about 1/2 inch longer than the old one. whoever put the old one on had the bottom of the weights out of the cup, by a good distance. when i replaced it, i cut it so the bottom now hangs in the cup, only about 1/8 of an inch off the bottom. i hope thats acceptable. could someone confirm? thanks.
 

MartinM

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Is this one a Kundo standard, as well? If so, it should also be a .0032 spring cut to a length that puts the bottom of the pendulum in the cup while not resting on anything. Make sure the clock is 'square' as viewed from the side. By that, I mean, base and pillars are at 90 degrees from each other as are the movement to the pillars.
 

tlojak41

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May 4, 2013
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yes, this is a standard, (measures 12" with the dome on). the springs i ordered are the .0032. as far as i can judge by eye, the pillars are 90 degrees. i have the bottom of the pendulum not touching the bottom, or anything else, (i do have the clock centered that the pendulum in in the center of the cup). thanks for the advice, ive applied it, and if everything goes right, i should have a clock that keeps proper time!!
 

shutterbug

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You should set it so it runs fast, then slow it down slowly over several weeks with the pendulum. They adjust better this way, and will keep better time.
 

tlojak41

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May 4, 2013
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ok, how do i set it to run fast? im up to try anything. im a little past half on the adjustment, and i think its running just a bit slow yet. ill check it in an hour or so.
 

shutterbug

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I'd turn it all the way to the fastest setting and verify that it's running fast. Then slowly turn it slower. If it runs fast set at the fastest setting you'll know for sure you have the proper suspension spring too :)
 

tlojak41

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May 4, 2013
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thats where i am now, lol. i have the setting almost all the way fast. its running a little fast, so now i plan on adjusting it every day or two till im not gaining time anymore. thanks for the advice.:)
 

shutterbug

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Great. I'm sure you'll be able to get it right now :)
 

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