KUNDO 400day wont stay running

[John P]

CAN YOU HELP
I have taken this clock apart twice now. Doing cleaning and pivot burnishing, smooth broaching bushings etc. There are no worn bushings, no bent escape wheel teeth and main spring has been cleaned and oiled. The suspension spring looks good.
It will run for hours and then stop. Trying to adjust beat does not help.
I am at a loss of what to now. I have Charles Terwillinger's book which in my opinion is pretty much worthless.

kundo plate # 1407B

johnp

 

[KurtinSA]

I wouldn't say that the repair guide is worthless. Chapter 7 is pretty darn important!

So, have you tried moving the fork up/down? Have you confirmed that the fork has clearance between the tines and the anchor pin? Does the clock stop in the same position in terms of the wheels? Have you tried running the clock without the hands and motion works? You've probably read about the 2-click test...when you have assembled the movement but have left out the anchor, how many clicks of the winding arbor does it take before the escape wheel starts to turn?

A picture or two might help us see what you're dealing with.

Kurt

 

[Schatznut]

If you need a more basic how-to guide than The Book, you need a copy of "Repair and Restore Your 400-day Clock" by Joseph Rabushka. If you're lucky, you'll find it in your local library or through interlibrary loan because it is out of print and used copies are stupid expensive. It's a more introductory-level book. If you have it and The Book, you have enough information to allow you to tackle virtually any problem in 400-day clocks.

Without more information and photographs, we won't be able to help much. Let's start there.

 

[Wayne A]

Good suggestions so far to get your clock going. Here's another, how much over swing are you getting? I like to see 15-20degres at one turn of the main spring, full wind it's typically double or more. Also check the fork to pin gap at end of swing, I like to see 1-2thou.
Pictures would help, a couple minute video is better.

Wayne

 

[Schatznut]

And Wayne's suggested tests will tell you if you've got it correctly in beat. Without that being the case, all bets are off.

 

[Schatznut]

John -

Quoting from Joseph Rabushka's book, Chapter 2:

"...we find that in order for this little clock to keep running, everything about it has to be perfect. This means not almost perfect, or nearly perfect, but absolutely perfect."

1407B is a narrow-plate variant of the Kundo standard-size movement, which, next to the Schatz 49, is one of the most robust, easy-to-work-on 400-day movements. So even without photos, The Book has already proved its value. This movement does not have an eccentric to adjust the clearance between the anchor and the escapement wheel, which is good - one less adjustment to foul up. That's a good thing. Have you adjusted the pallets in the anchor? If you have not, don't - your odds of making things worse instead of better are high if you do so. Kurt's suggestion regarding Chapter 7 of The Book is spot-on. Pay particular attention to the paragraph titled "Making Adjustments to the Graham Escapement" that starts on page 45.

Be careful, back your way out, and make sure that every bit of power available from the mainspring is making it all the way to the pendulum. When this is the case, the clock will run.

 

[KurtinSA]

This movement does not have an eccentric to adjust the clearance between the anchor and the escapement wheel, which is good - one less adjustment to foul up.

Except for the peninsula!! I've had to bend those puppies a few times. Kinda scary to do that!!

Kurt

 

[Schatznut]

Except for the peninsula!! I've had to bend those puppies a few times. Kinda scary to do that!!

Kurt

I've never had to bend one, thank goodness. I agree, Kurt - that would be a harder decision to make than figuring out whether to tweak the eccentric because it would be harder to undo!

 

[Wayne A]

Normally if someone adjusted the peninsula you can tell from marks left on it. I've had to bend a few of them, just have to support what ever tool your using to not leave marks. Its not normally the reason a clock won't run though.

Wayne

 

[John P]

Thanks for your kind advice, i will study a bit more. I have not made any adjustments other than getting it in beat.
A small washer was on the work bench after taking it apart and later found a small spring. I found out where the go but commented on the book because there was no information or parts diagram as to where they were supposed to be placed.
I did restore a Schatz 49 some years ago that's still running.

thanks
johnp

 

[Schatznut]

Thanks for your kind advice, i will study a bit more. I have not made any adjustments other than getting it in beat.
A small washer was on the work bench after taking it apart and later found a small spring. I found out where the go but commented on the book because there was no information or parts diagram as to where they were supposed to be placed.
I did restore a Schatz 49 some years ago that's still running.

thanks
johnp

Depending on where the washer and spring came from (I suspect they're for tensioning the minute hand when it's installed), their placement could determine whether the clock will run properly or not. Photos of same would be helpful. Also, if you took lots of photos when you disassembled it, you may be able to tell from them where these parts came from and how they should be oriented.

 

[KurtinSA]

I overhauled a 1407B in the past. From my pictures, I see no small spring in the clock. I've seen those before, though. They usually fit in the backside of the cannon pinion...there is a cavity for it. It acts to provide the tension to the minute hand when it is put on the center arbor.

Kurt

 

[Dells]

Hi Johnp
I have done a blog on how I restore an anniversary clock it may help you.
Dell

My blog How I Restore an Anniversary cloc- Gallery

How I restore a Anniversary clock I thought I would post how I go about restoring an anniversary clock. When I receive the clock I visually inspect it to see if any parts are missing, damaged or loose, I then using the letdown tool or key to check mainspring because that will tell me if...

anniversary-clocks.co.uk

 

[Bod]

CAN YOU HELP
I have taken this clock apart twice now. Doing cleaning and pivot burnishing, smooth broaching bushings etc. There are no worn bushings, no bent escape wheel teeth and main spring has been cleaned and oiled. The suspension spring looks good.
It will run for hours and then stop. Trying to adjust beat does not help.
I am at a loss of what to now. I have Charles Terwillinger's book which in my opinion is pretty much worthless.

kundo plate # 1407B

johnp

Mark the relative positions of each gear when it stops.
Restart the clock, allow to run for as long as it will.
Look at the previous marked gears, have any stopped in the same place?
Thats the place to look.

Bod

 

[John P]

Dells, thanks for the video tutorial. Very good information especially the beat setting.

johnp

 

[John P]

Since my first post the clock has not stopped. I must have done something right in the beat setting and fork settings to make the works run properly
Thats to all for the help

johnp