Function Korean movement stops after few minutes

[henro001]

This is my first attempt at repair, but mostly learning. The goal was to take the movement apart but somehow i was able to put it all back.
The time keeping stops after a few minutes. When the escapement is removed, the wheels run freely. After some adjustment of the escapement pin, the clock runs but I wonder if this will eventually come back. Could it be just the escapement or possibly other issue? I appreciate any help. Please do not laugh i am learning

 

[wow]

This is my first attempt at repair, but mostly learning. The goal was to take the movement apart but somehow i was able to put it all back.
The time keeping stops after a few minutes. When the escapement is removed, the wheels run freely. After some adjustment of the escapement pin, the clock runs but I wonder if this will eventually come back. Could it be just the escapement or possibly other issue? I appreciate any help. Please do not laugh i am learning

Is this the same clock you posted about yesterday? If so, maybe a moderator will merge the two threads. We like to keep one thread only on each clock. We are not going to laugh about anything you post. That’s how we learn.
It would be helpful if you would post several photos of the movement you are working on. Also, if you could make a video of it running with the movement visible, that would really help us help you. Make it on YouTube and post it here.

 

[roughbarked]

Welcome to the forum.
Do you have a short spirit level you can put on or in the clock?
This will ascertain if the clock is level.
Afterwards, you may try learning about putting the clock in beat.

Beat Setting 101

What beat is and how to set it in your clock to keep it running.BEAT AND BEAT-SETTING

mb.nawcc.org

 

[henro001]

Is this the same clock you posted about yesterday? If so, maybe a moderator will merge the two threads. We like to keep one thread only on each clock. We are not going to laugh about anything you post. That’s how we learn.
It would be helpful if you would post several photos of the movement you are working on. Also, if you could make a video of it running with the movement visible, that would really help us help you. Make it on YouTube and post it here.

Yes its the same clock. I will keep the questions in one thread. And will also post the video. Thanks!

 

[Richard.W]

Welcome.

• These type clocks were sold in decorating and furniture stores, and so buyers serviced them as if it was a coffee table or lamp... which is to say never ! Clocks need regular service every 8-10 years. Without this, extreme wear can occur. Wear is the Number 1 reason a clock refuses to "run". To find the wear points, the individual parts need to be cleaned, have their pivots polished, and then reassembled for inspection.

• Apparently you have made it that far. Now you are looking for pivot bushings that have worn oval. They could be anywhere in the Time train. Since the Strike train usually requires more energy, the Strike train may experience even greater wear.

• Another thing you must do is clean and then lubricate both sides of the mainsprings. On my Korean clock the OEM spring oil had oxidized, leaving a rough, crusty surface finish. This made it impossible for the coils to slide against each other and release their energy.

► Clocks run on a tiny amount of energy. Thus all it takes to keep them from running is an infinitesimal amount of friction.

• Regardless of brand, type, age, style, the initial setup of any pendulum clock must include getting the clock "in beat". Many of the modern Korean clocks include what is known as "Auto Beat". This can make things easier if you know it's there, OR it can make things impossible if you don't. Without it, setting the Beat involves fine leveling in the X & Y direction. With Auto Beat you simply pull the bob until it touches the case wall and let it go; the clock finds its own Beat after that.

Another "gotcha" about Auto Beat is that it works by having a tiny amount of internal friction. If the novice mistakenly oils this device, then the clock may never work again. Modern oils are that good and that tenacious !

• I will tell you again what you already know.... The 31-day springs hold an enormous amount of energy. Enough to send you to the ER. Please be especially careful when working with the mainsprings.

► The greatest tool available to the clock repairman is the Power of Observation. Find the bit robbing the clock of its power and it will run.

Hope this helps.

 

[henro001]

Welcome to the forum.
Do you have a short spirit level you can put on or in the clock?
This will ascertain if the clock is level.
Afterwards, you may try learning about putting the clock in beat.

Beat Setting 101

What beat is and how to set it in your clock to keep it running.BEAT AND BEAT-SETTING

mb.nawcc.org

Thanks! I will read this. I have a level and will check.

 

[Kevin W.]

Not sure why but mant people seem to think a clean and a oil repairs worn clocks. If you would like to learn clock repair, i can suggest better clock movements to learn on.

 

[Willie X]

"the wheels run freely", this has no meaning on a wound up clock ...

But, if you leave the spring clips on, let the mainspring completely down, and then wind it back up (about 3 clicks past where you feel the slightest resistance) this will have some meaning but still not much unless you carefully control the escape wheel by stopping and releasing it (repeatedly) with your finger (20 or 30 times). It should restart every time.

This is called the 'slow roll test' and is a good diagnostic for clocks with symptoms of low power. Look up 'slow roll test', 'fast roll test', "sandwich drop test" and 'checking for wear'. These test can point you in the right direction. If your clock passes all 4 test, your problem could well be in the escapement and due to wear or misadjustment, or both.

Willie X

 

[henro001]

Not sure why but mant people seem to think a clean and a oil repairs worn clocks. If you would like to learn clock repair, i can suggest better clock movements to learn on.

Please let me know. I only use this clock to learn because its the only one I have, but would like to get a good movement for learning.

 

[Dave T]

If that's the only clock you have you can learn a lot with it. Just take Willie's advice above to start. Do you know how to let down the springs, so you can test it?
If that's a 31 day clock it has STRONG springs, so be careful, and use gloves.

 

[henro001]

"the wheels run freely", this has no meaning on a wound up clock ...

But, if you leave the spring clips on, let the mainspring completely down, and then wind it back up (about 3 clicks past where you feel the slightest resistance) this will have some meaning but still not much unless you carefully control the escape wheel by stopping and releasing it (repeatedly) with your finger (20 or 30 times). It should restart every time.

This is called the 'slow roll test' and is a good diagnostic for clocks with symptoms of low power. Look up 'slow roll test', 'fast roll test', "sandwich drop test" and 'checking for wear'. These test can point you in the right direction. If your clock passes all 4 test, your problem could well be in the escapement and due to wear or misadjustment, or both.

Willie X

thanks i will try this!

 

[henro001]

If that's the only clock you have you can learn a lot with it. Just take Willie's advice above to start. Do you know how to let down the springs, so you can test it?
If that's a 31 day clock it has STRONG springs, so be careful, and use gloves.

i got letdown tool and clips and was able to let down the springs to remove them. i believe this is 8 day movement.

 

[roughbarked]

Did you take photos?
There are very few if any Korean 8 day clocks.

 

[Dave T]

Yea, would be nice to see what you're working on. Pictures!

 

[henro001]

This is what i have so far. I take pictures as i take it apart to help to put it all back.

 

[roughbarked]

It most certainly looks like a 31 day Korean clock.

 

[henro001]

It most certainly looks like a 31 day Korean clock.

I stand corrected then. Thanks!
Edit: I think i was told by the seller it was 8 day. It was 2 years ago and i just accepted it

 

[roughbarked]

I could still be wrong.
I can see wear issues, all of which should be addressed

 

[henro001]

I could still be wrong.
I can see wear issues, all of which should be addressed

I am impressed! Can you please point them out?

 

[roughbarked]

I can't see them all. You'd need to photograph every part from several angles preferrably at very close up.
I'm sure that you can see the wear marks better than I can.

 

[wow]

The arbors (shafts) that wear first in these clocks are the T-2 and S-2 pivot holes on the rear plate. There is more pressure on those two pivots than any others because the springs are so big and powerful that the second wheel in both trains gets more pressure than any other wheels. The holes on the rear are first to wear because the wheels and pinions are close to the rear.. You did not post a photo of the rear so we cannot tell if those are worn. Actually, those on the front do not look too bad in your photos. Like Rough said, close-ups of front and rear pivot holes would help.

 

[henro001]

this is the movement in action after some escapement adjustment. It doesnt stop after a minute but stops after an hour or so. I think it has something to do with the strike train not fully assembled? it seems much smoother now than before.

 

[henro001]

Another question, and i am not even sure what these parts are called . the tiny wheel with 3 pins (what is it called?). it was just attached on the pin but i think i broke it somehow and its not tightly holding in place. the wheel (and the pin) rotates but this 3 pin wheel does not. is it possible to reattach it? doesnt look like broken it just rotates while on the pin. please forgive my lack of terminology



Edit:
is this gathering pallet? Clock Parts Terminology •
Is this my problem?

Korean 31 day gathering pallet loose

This is one of those sentimental value clocks that the owner doesn't want to spend $$ to repair. I like to tinker so I told them I'd take a look at it. The problem is the gathering pallet shifts on the end of the arbor, and the strike just keeps on going. Is this movement worth the effort...

mb.nawcc.org

 

[henro001]

The arbors (shafts) that wear first in these clocks are the T-2 and S-2 pivot holes on the rear plate. There is more pressure on those two pivots than any others because the springs are so big and powerful that the second wheel in both trains gets more pressure than any other wheels. The holes on the rear are first to wear because the wheels and pinions are close to the rear.. You did not post a photo of the rear so we cannot tell if those are worn. Actually, those on the front do not look too bad in your photos. Like Rough said, close-ups of front and rear pivot holes would help.

Photos of the pivot holes for main springs. Do they look worn?

 

[wow]

The three pin is the gathering pallet. It is friction fit on the arbor. Just carefully push it down and it will tighten. It lifts the rack. The pins must be in a certain position in order for the rack to fall in warning.

The winding arbor pivots do not look too warn to me. The ones that usually wear fast are the rear #2 pivots on both sides due to the extreme power of the big springs. Much of that power is exerted on those two pivots.

 

[henro001]

The clock seems to be working for past few days, however i think i may stop. I dont like this skip in every beat as seen in the video

Also, I find it very challenging to adjust the escapement anchor. the escapement arbor does not sit between front and back plate. in the back there is a little lever that is attached to the back plate with a screw similar to this picture (i dont have rear picture since the movement is back in the case) . the arbor is between the front plate and this lever. I am not sure how tight the screw should be. if its loose, its easy to adjust but will eventually move. if its tight its almost impossible to adjust.

 

[Willie X]

This would normally be adjusted 'out of the case'. Once it is adjusted, it's adjusted ... The arms (dog bones) should be somewhat parallel but they do not need to be exactly parrellel.

Willie X

 

[wow]

I think the little skip you are hearing is the leader bumping the fork in the crutch. Close the loop in so the leader does not pop on each tick.

 

[henro001]

I think the little skip you are hearing is the leader bumping the fork in the crutch. Close the loop in so the leader does not pop on each tick.

Thanks! I did and the skip is gone now.

 

[henro001]

This would normally be adjusted 'out of the case'. Once it is adjusted, it's adjusted ... The arms (dog bones) should be somewhat parallel but they do not need to be exactly parrellel.

Willie X

I thought it had and put back the case, but then realized i didnt really have it