Kienzle table clock for identification

[Andrew_C]

Dear gentlemen, could you please identificate exact model and production year of this Kientzle table clock?
It was bought in Germany from one of the antique dealers and is not expensive. I've been told it was manufactured somewhere in 1940s, but I'd love to know more info on this piece. At least the most important for me whether it was made prior to the WWII or post-1945?

 

[Andrew_C]

Re: Kientzle table clock for identification

Photo No.2.

 

[Andrew_C]

Re: Kientzle table clock for identification

Photo No.3. Backside view.

 

[Andrew_C]

Re: Kientzle table clock for identification

Photo No.4. Maybe this close-up might be helpful?

 

[Andrew_C]

Re: Kientzle table clock for identification

The movement has the following marks:
- "190.66" standing for number of pendulum swings;
- "12 cm" - length of pendulum;
- "27724" - serial number;
- Plus two marks of previous repairments done: 07.11.1955 and ??.08.1964.

 

[Andrew_C]

Re: Kientzle table clock for identification

No one can help? :0:

 

[harold bain]

Re: Kientzle table clock for identification

Hi, Andrew, welcome to the message board.
Well, there is no data base on Kienzle clocks to accurately date your clock. The style looks 1930's to me. The movement is of good quality, and the strike should have a deep sound to it.

 

[Andrew_C]

Re: Kientzle table clock for identification

Many thanks for your reply, Harold!
By the way, is it possible to find a photo of such a clock in any of period catalogues?
I've got a feeling that this piece might be manufactured post-war...

 

[macaw]

Re: Kientzle table clock for identification

I have a Junghans that's very similar to your Kienzle that I believe to be just prior to the war.

 

[Andrew_C]

Re: Kientzle table clock for identification

You are absolutely right, many types of table clocks like the one I showed were manufactured in Germany of that time. The question is - whether it's a pre- or post-WWII piece? I've been told by a German dealer that logo has characteristic feature of early 40s production, i.e. it's the one with the "fat" lettering that was used in early 40s. However I don't have neither paper catalogues, nor electronic ones to approve or disapprove the issue...
Maybe someone of your esteemed society could share with me evolution of Kienzle logotypes or even provide a scan of 1940s catalogue featuring exact model of that clock? Link to reliable source will be great as well!

 

[Andrew_C]

Here's a Kienzle logo history downloaded from the web, but there's no difference shown between "thick" and "thin" lettering!

 

[Andrew_C]

Fast search within German Wikipedia showed this Kienzle logo with "thick" lettering but it is from 1960s!
So I'm totally confused and need your knowledge!

 

[harold bain]

Re: Kientzle table clock for identification

You are absolutely right, many types of table clocks like the one I showed were manufactured in Germany of that time. The question is - whether it's a pre- or post-WWII piece? I've been told by a German dealer that logo has characteristic feature of early 40s production, i.e. it's the one with the "fat" lettering that was used in early 40s. However I don't have neither paper catalogues, nor electronic ones to approve or disapprove the issue...
Maybe someone of your esteemed society could share with me evolution of Kienzle logotypes or even provide a scan of 1940s catalogue featuring exact model of that clock? Link to reliable source will be great as well!

There would have been little or no production from 1939-46 (WW11). Good luck finding a catalog for that period.

 

[Andrew_C]

Re: Kientzle table clock for identification

I see.. Maybe type of logo could be helpful in narrowing period of production?

 

[harold bain]

Re: Kientzle table clock for identification

You may have better luck searching for the fellow who sold the clock (back door) and when he was in business. I don't see the logo on your clock.

 

[Andrew_C]

Another mystery :cyclops:
I studied small metal shield fixed to the interior part of the backside door, it bears logo of "F.W.Sander, Hannover / Georgstr[aße] 20 / Fernruf 27724 / Georgstr[aße] 5 Eigene Werkstatten".
Here's a piece of info on that company taken from this website.

Sander-Uhren

F. W. Sander / Sander amSteintor oHG

Taschenuhren, Armbanduhren; Hannover, Deutschland; registriert am 24.1.1952

So, it was fixed to the clock post-January 1952.
BUT! As far as the clock was repaired in 1955, couldn't that shield been fixed then, i.e. in 1955, as an advertisement for future reference of the owner?
What do you think?

 

[Andrew_C]

Re: Kientzle table clock for identification

You may have better luck searching for the fellow who sold the clock (back door) and when he was in business.

Unfortunately it's not possible as I stay in Moscow, the clock was bought a couple of years ago in Germany from an antique dealer and later sold to another antique dealer in Kaliningrad (former Königsberg). Germany ---> Kaliningrad ---> Moscow = no chances to ask a back door fellow who owned that clock once...

I don't see the logo on your clock.

I meant this one, circled in red! Am I right assuming it should be called "logo" or is there another name for that one? Sorry, not being an English-speaking fellow, sometimes it's difficult for me to seek out correct name for a certain notion))

 

[Andrew_C]

Re: Kientzle table clock for identification

Any thoughts, gentlemen?

 

[macaw]

Re: Kientzle table clock for identification

There's a Kienzle clock on Ebay in the US that is very similar to yours. The add says late 1940's. I doubt very much that you will find a Kienzle catalog from that era that shows your clock. Most catalogs in the past and present are tossed out once they're obsolete. Few factories kept good enough records to accurately date a clock. I have two Kienzles that I really wish I could accurately date, but I know I'm out of luck and will probably never get anything but an approximation based on the style of the clock case. The Kienzle logo on the front of your clock is in nearly the same script and placement as the Junghans logo on my clock of the same style.

 

[Andrew_C]

Re: Kientzle table clock for identification

Unfortunately, you are absolutely right regarding absence of reliable info on Kienzle clocks. However there's a catalogue issued by Kienzle company in 1939 advertising their goods for American market. It is currently being sold here: http://www.usmbooks.com/kienzle.html
Description states it's "big 8-1/4 x 11-5/8 inch, 224 page, very, very heavily illustrated full-color soft cover April 1939 catalog pictures not only hundreds of desk, wall and floor clocks, but also travel alarm clocks, pocket watches, automobile clocks, aircraft clocks and timers in ten different categories. In a pocket in the back of the book there is a letter from the company, a 20-page price list and two indexes to the part numbers of the various products illustrated in the catalog". The most intriguing part is that it offers "a clarification of the latest part numbering system".
Maybe information published there might be helpful in correct identification of Kienzle pre-WWII products?
Please find attached couple of photos from that booklet.

 

[macaw]

Re: Kientzle table clock for identification

Thanks for finding that. If I could afford their price I'd buy it in a minute. Hopefully someone on the forum will see it who can afford it to help others looking for information.