Kienzle Movement problems.

Jmurrell

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Apr 3, 2011
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I am working on a Kienzle movement and I have run into a problem that I am not sure how to fix or even if I can.

One of the gears had a tooth missing and I was able to install another tooth but I ran into a tooth being missing on the spring barrel and some weird attempt to fix it and I need some help on how to fix this.

If it cannot be fixed with my limited skills does anyone have a spring barrel for the time side of a Kienzle that you would be willing to sell me?

I am going to post a couple of pictures of the movement from an eBay listing as I have my movement apart and cannot get pictures of it right now but this is the identical one I am working on.

I will also post some pictures of the barrel that I am working on for ideas on what to do.

Please any help would be greatly appreciated.

John Murrell

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R. Croswell

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Apr 4, 2006
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The broken tooth can be replaced, but not like the attempt shown. If you are not sure how, better send it out to someone who can do a proper repair. Don't take chances with the main wheel. Looks like the spring anchor may be a little pushed out which could indicate a previous spring failure. Check the 2nd. arbor, it may be bent, check pinion on the second arbor for damage. We need pictures of your clock. I believe there are rules against using pictures from eBay without the owner's permission.

RC
 

Jmurrell

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Apr 3, 2011
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The broken tooth can be replaced, but not like the attempt shown. If you are not sure how, better send it out to someone who can do a proper repair. Don't take chances with the main wheel. Looks like the spring anchor may be a little pushed out which could indicate a previous spring failure. Check the 2nd. arbor, it may be bent, check pinion on the second arbor for damage. We need pictures of your clock. I believe there are rules against using pictures from eBay without the owner's permission.

RC
I can't send you a picture of mine because it's torn apart but I didn't know you couldn't use other pictures so you could see what I am talking about.

The second wheel above that spring barrel is the one that had a tooth ripped out and I replaced it already but I have never done a spring barrel tooth.

Do you know if that is expensive to have a tooth replace in a spring barrel?

The problem is that I am not the owner of the clock and I would have to clear it with him before I would do it.

John Murrell
 

R. Croswell

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Apr 4, 2006
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I can't send you a picture of mine because it's torn apart but I didn't know you couldn't use other pictures so you could see what I am talking about.

The second wheel above that spring barrel is the one that had a tooth ripped out and I replaced it already but I have never done a spring barrel tooth.

Do you know if that is expensive to have a tooth replace in a spring barrel?

The problem is that I am not the owner of the clock and I would have to clear it with him before I would do it.

John Murrell
If I were going to send this repair out I would contact About Time - David LaBounty
Expensive is relative but you have to pay for quality work. I expect that the charge will be in "three figures" but you will have to ask Dave how much. I expect he will want to see it.

Was the 2nd pinion that you repaired a lantern, or cut pinion? Can you describe how the repair was done and possibly let us see a picture? That pinion is heavily loaded and if that repair should fail it could wreck your repaired main wheel again.

RC
 

Jmurrell

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Apr 3, 2011
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If I were going to send this repair out I would contact About Time - David LaBounty
Expensive is relative but you have to pay for quality work. I expect that the charge will be in "three figures" but you will have to ask Dave how much. I expect he will want to see it.

Was the 2nd pinion that you repaired a lantern, or cut pinion? Can you describe how the repair was done and possibly let us see a picture? That pinion is heavily loaded and if that repair should fail it could wreck your repaired main wheel again.

RC
It wasn't the pinion that failed it was a tooth in the 2nd gear that failed and I repaired that.

I have taken the spring out of the spring barrel to get it out of the way and I wanted to see the damage that was done by whoever attempted the first repair on the barrel.

Here are the pictures of the wheel that I repaired.

John Murrell

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R. Croswell

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Apr 4, 2006
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It wasn't the pinion that failed it was a tooth in the 2nd gear that failed and I repaired that.

I have taken the spring out of the spring barrel to get it out of the way and I wanted to see the damage that was done by whoever attempted the first repair on the barrel.

Here are the pictures of the wheel that I repaired.

John Murrell

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Can't tell for sure from the picture, it won't enlarge enough to see clearly, but the replaced tooth looks to be significantly shorter than the one on either side of it. If that is the case, it could be a problem.

RC
 

Mike Mall

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Oct 27, 2021
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I have one that's close from my junk box. Check the dimensions - let me know if it will work.
4th photo shows the anchor is bulged on this one as well.
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Jmurrell

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Apr 3, 2011
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Can't tell for sure from the picture, it won't enlarge enough to see clearly, but the replaced tooth looks to be significantly shorter than the one on either side of it. If that is the case, it could be a problem.

RC
It is slightly shorter but the mesh of the teeth with the others is deep enough that I don't think it will be a problem.

Once I get it together I will check to make sure its not a problem.

Hohn
 

Jmurrell

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Apr 3, 2011
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I have one that's close from my junk box. Check the dimensions - let me know if it will work.
4th photo shows the anchor is bulged on this one as well.
View attachment 730077 View attachment 730079 View attachment 730078 View attachment 730080 View attachment 730081
I really wish this would work and most of the dimensions are very close. The dia. across the teeth on mine is 53.89, the die of my barrel itself is 48.90 but the height of yours is shorter as mine measures24.22, and the hole on mine is 6.54 but that wouldn't be a problem as I could enlarge yours. I just don't know if there is a way to compensate for the height problem. What do you think?
John
 

Mike Mall

NAWCC Member
Oct 27, 2021
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I really wish this would work and most of the dimensions are very close. The dia. across the teeth on mine is 53.89, the die of my barrel itself is 48.90 but the height of yours is shorter as mine measures24.22, and the hole on mine is 6.54 but that wouldn't be a problem as I could enlarge yours. I just don't know if there is a way to compensate for the height problem. What do you think?
John
I double checked the height - same. I think the rest would probably work.
I guess the real question is how wide are the spring, and the arbor that fit inside?
If you want to give it a go, PM me your address and I'll donate it to the cause, you can have it for the price of postage.
 

Jmurrell

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Apr 3, 2011
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I double checked the height - same. I think the rest would probably work.
I guess the real question is how wide are the spring, and the arbor that fit inside?
If you want to give it a go, PM me your address and I'll donate it to the cause, you can have it for the price of postage.
I would like to try and make this work but I don't know how to PM you. Could you please tell me how to do that?
John
 

Jmurrell

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Apr 3, 2011
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Can't tell for sure from the picture, it won't enlarge enough to see clearly, but the replaced tooth looks to be significantly shorter than the one on either side of it. If that is the case, it could be a problem.

RC
I wanted to let you know that I decided to install another tooth in the gear after you pointed out the height problem.

The more I looked at it the more I decided you were right and it needs to be changed.

The problem I ran into is that I had to cut 5 more before I got it right.

I need to do a little more sanding on the sides but it fits well and it is just a little higher and I can dress that down.

I am going to post some pictured again.

John Murrell

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Jmurrell

NAWCC Member
Apr 3, 2011
691
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Southeastern Ohio
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I double checked the height - same. I think the rest would probably work.
I guess the real question is how wide are the spring, and the arbor that fit inside?
If you want to give it a go, PM me your address and I'll donate it to the cause, you can have it for the price of postage.
Mike I wanted to let you know that I got the barrel and I think I am going to be able to make it work with some effort on my part.

Thanks a lot for the barrel as it solved a world of problems with the messed up barrel that I had.

John Murrell
 
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Mike Mall

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Beautiful repair on that tooth!
 

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