Kienzle grandfather clock.

Discussion in 'General Clock Discussions' started by Kevin W., Jul 27, 2014.

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  1. Kevin W.

    Kevin W. Registered User
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    Apr 11, 2002
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    I work at the Veritas Tools machine shop.
    Nepean, Ontario, Canada
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    Just have a few questions on this clock i bought.
    Wondering about age and the model name if someone has the Kienzle catalog information. I am guessing its age between 1920 and 1930.
    back of plate has these numbers.
    DRP 283312
    Drp 367338 DSC02451.JPG DSC02452.JPG
    DRGM 779005
    And the serial number is 210457
     
  2. chimeclockfan

    chimeclockfan Registered User
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    That's a nice one - was probably made between 1924 to 1930s.

    Might you have a photo of the movement or chime rod block?
     
  3. Kevin W.

    Kevin W. Registered User
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    Thanks Justin on the information you gave me. Here are the pictures. DSC02453.JPG DSC02455.JPG DSC02457.JPG DSC02458.JPG DSC02456.JPG DSC02454.JPG

    Justin said earlier it,s the N movement and made between 1924 and 1933.
     
  4. chimeclockfan

    chimeclockfan Registered User
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    That's correct - my scans of a 1924 Kienzle catalog list this as Movement N, an 8 day weight driven movement with Westminster chimes and 4 rod strike. Solid pinions, chain driven weights, no jewels.

    It was used on many of Kienzle's floor clocks, alongside the larger and heavier Movement K. This was also a weight driven Westminster chime floor clock movement, but the layout differs from that of the N.
     
  5. Dustin Schoombie

    Dustin Schoombie Registered User

    Jul 26, 2020
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    Can anyone please help me date this Kienzle. It is Walnut veneer and play’s Whittington and Westminster.
     
  6. Dustin Schoombie

    Dustin Schoombie Registered User

    Jul 26, 2020
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    Can anyone please help me date this Kienzle. It is Walnut veneer and play’s Whittington and Westminster.

    62768470-1DC1-4B5F-9497-024EDAEA7CCE.jpeg 101A9BC2-9EDE-49BE-B9E2-26DD0F06CED7.jpeg C2704C18-2EF3-4093-A776-8DAD39667930.jpeg 6BD55EE5-2DE0-4085-B506-1DB503D4AE9B.jpeg EBCBB09E-4AAA-4DF3-B971-D605E39EEE49.jpeg 35ADD540-8FE9-42DD-8C75-BA8FC049874B.jpeg 83189D25-574A-4FC9-8FCB-AD6E16580306.jpeg B252ED77-D6F9-432E-A479-78E42BFE9486.jpeg 9372B7AE-027C-40DE-836C-E07392D52DA0.jpeg 7DE77906-BA35-47AD-BD20-D1DDAD0ADB50.jpeg 249ED9A4-6D02-4E70-9184-9F2B5B45541A.jpeg
     
  7. JTD

    JTD Registered User

    Sep 27, 2005
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    Welcome to the board.

    I believe your Kienzle movement is newer than the case it is in.

    Others will be able to be more exact.

    JTD
     
  8. Dustin Schoombie

    Dustin Schoombie Registered User

    Jul 26, 2020
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    Thank you for your reply JTD. It could be I suppose but can’t see any modifications on the clock. Is this possible?
     
  9. JTD

    JTD Registered User

    Sep 27, 2005
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    Yes, perfectly possible, if you just exchange a similar movement for a newer one the same size. By the look of the case, it seems to be from the 1920s. The Kienzle movement has a much more modern logo and I am am fairly sure the 582 movements were made well after the end of the war, even in the 1980s..

    But I am sure there will be others who can be more accurate.

    JTD
     
  10. chimeclockfan

    chimeclockfan Registered User
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    This is a Gebr. Jauch KG movement, going by the overgrown chime lock disc and other features which correspond exactly with the Gebr. Jauch outline. It is also rather "petite" compared to the original Kienzle weight driven movement which was a heavy beast in all aspects.

    The late Hans-Heinrich Schmid explained to me that Gebr. Jauch made a habit of selling clocks under more familiar trade names to excise profits where their own company name would not hold up. This also came during the later postwar years when the older German clock factories were under pressure and began going out of business. As this clock bears a Kienzle movement stock code - 582/234 - this was most likely done under contract, though this was not always the case. 'Kienzle' clocks bearing Hermle movements under similar circumstances have also been unearthed on many occasions.

    Kienzle - true, original Kienzle - did not make any weight driven movements with the Whittington chime. Only the smaller spring driven movements which usually went to British export during the 1930's.

    If you prod the chime selector just-so, it should play a third chime: St. Michael. The ever-resourceful trade in Vietnam has showcased a similar clock:
     
  11. Dustin Schoombie

    Dustin Schoombie Registered User

    Jul 26, 2020
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    Thank you for your reply
     
  12. Dustin Schoombie

    Dustin Schoombie Registered User

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  13. Dustin Schoombie

    Dustin Schoombie Registered User

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  14. Dustin Schoombie

    Dustin Schoombie Registered User

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    Even the tune rods exact.
    upload_2020-8-3_17-33-54.jpeg

    upload_2020-8-3_17-31-11.jpeg
     
  15. chimeclockfan

    chimeclockfan Registered User
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    I will say that the chimes sound excellent on these clocks, and the case is neatly proportioned. The rod gong assemblies were leased out to a supplier - usually Urgos or Haller & Co. since they were the only active gong manufacturers at that time. While Gebr. Jauch movements usually have a date code, the movements leased out to other manufacturers did not always come with an exact date. The closest date range I can suggest is during the 1960's, right before Kienzle ended production and sales of mechanical clocks.

    Gebr. Jauch KG continued clock and movement production until the mid 1980's.
     
  16. S_Owsley

    S_Owsley Registered User
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    I would love to have a similar vintage German GF that played Whittington. I would make room for it somewhere!
     
  17. Dustin Schoombie

    Dustin Schoombie Registered User

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  18. Dustin Schoombie

    Dustin Schoombie Registered User

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    Chime clock fan. You sound very knowledgeable when it comes to these clocks and I appreciate your info. Would you say love antiques are wrong having there clock certified to be 1920?
     
  19. chimeclockfan

    chimeclockfan Registered User
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    Unfortunately the listing's estimate is inaccurate. 1920 would be way too early, both the type of movement used and case style do not match a 1920's period clock at all. The Art Deco streamline cases did not begin to appear from Kienzle until 1930 and as noted above, the usage of Gebr. Jauch KG movements would relegate it into the 1960's time frame. I find many auction houses have a habit of overshooting clock ages owing to lack of research with estimations being purely based on assumptions rather than the study of company history, different movement or case styles, and so on.

    The first German floor clocks with the Whittington chime on rods were made by Gustav Becker in 1924, known as Movement HWW Gong No. 15. The cases shown were typical of the 1920's period and do not resemble the Kienzle clock covered in this topic. John Hubby has the catalog scans which - and I stress the importance of public resources - really should be available for public viewing by this point. It is more beneficial to have resources such as catalogs and photographs available to help enthusiasts and auction houses alike when it comes to learning more about these clocks.

    The flourishing antique clock trade in Brazil shows a nice Gustav Becker floor clock with Whittington chimes:
     
  20. Dustin Schoombie

    Dustin Schoombie Registered User

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    I think you are spot on. I found a plaque on the clock that looks like this clock was given to one of they’re employees. Will attaché pic. The poor bastard that bought the clock from love antiques is under the impression his clock is 1920. Is this acceptable?
     
  21. Dustin Schoombie

    Dustin Schoombie Registered User

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  22. chimeclockfan

    chimeclockfan Registered User
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    It's probably not acceptable if he was dead-set on a clock from that exact time period, though with more knowledge at hand I wouldn't be personally upset with the clock's actual date of manufacture. It's still a great clock, an interesting example of a later Kienzle from their last years of mechanical clock production, and the chimes are amazing. You'll never get the same sound quality out of a modern Ridgeway or Howard Miller triple chime clock.
     
  23. Dustin Schoombie

    Dustin Schoombie Registered User

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    Thank you Chime clock fan. Please let me know if you come across any new info.
     
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  24. Dustin Schoombie

    Dustin Schoombie Registered User

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    Just one last thought. The number on the back of the movement “582” could easily be the date of manufacture being 1958 February.
     
  25. chimeclockfan

    chimeclockfan Registered User
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    The later Kienzle movements had a code stamped on the back plate. I've gone through some old threads to see if there was any coherency regarding different codes for types of movements, or possibly a dating system:

    Removing Kienzle 510 K6 movement from it's case

    Question re Kienzle 563/412

    There isn't much data on the later Kienzle movements. If a Kienzle catalog from the 1950's or 1960's turns up it should give a complete list of all movements offered at that time.
     

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