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Kieninger weight driven movement keeps stopping?

NEW65

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Nov 17, 2010
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Hi Everyone,
I seem to be having a lot of bad luck recently!... I now have another query!

I have a weight driven kieninger movement. It has little wear. The problem is that it keeps stopping! I altered the distance of the verge from the escape wheel and all seemed to be well and it continued to keep ticking for 12 hours before it stopped again! Prior to the adjustment it would only go for 30 minutes hence why I presumed the fault was linked to the escape-verge distance.

When the clock does stop the minute hand is locked and upon giving the pendulum a push, there is no tick whatsoever.

Do you think that I need to widen the verge- escape wheel distance further?? The escape wheel in this movement has quite 'shallow teeth' compared to most other escape wheels that I have seen!

Any advice would be good? I have made three adjustments now but just wonder if there is something else amiss hence my message today?

(I personally keep thinking that it may be related to the escape- verge distance as on each adjustment the clock runs for a longer period of time before stopping??)

Thanks as always :)

Simon
 

Randy Beckett

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Hi Simon,

I think it highly unlikely that a misadjusted verge would allow a clock to run normally for 12 hours then stop. I think I would focus on the more likely causes of:

1. A loss of power. Even though you haven't said the age of your movement, it may be one that had the plated pivots. Sometimes I think a piece of plating will flake off that is large enough to gouge into the brass, causing enough friction to abruptly stop a clock, before visible wear can be seen by the traditional tests of shaking the gear trains back and forth looking for pivot movement.

2. Jamming of the lifting lever. Since you said that the minute hand was locked up when the clock stopped, I can picture a possible problem with the chime or strike trains, with the lifting lever sometimes hanging on the warn pin of one of the trains and jamming the time train, causing it to stop. To test this just remove both the chime and strike weights and see if the clock will continue to run.
 

NEW65

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Thanks for the advice Randy... I just lifted off the chime and strike weights and turned the locked minute hand slightly backwards and the clock is now ticking away??
 

MARK A. BUTTERWORTH

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Hi Simon,

I think it highly unlikely that a misadjusted verge would allow a clock to run normally for 12 hours then stop. I think I would focus on the more likely causes of:

1. A loss of power. Even though you haven't said the age of your movement, it may be one that had the plated pivots. Sometimes I think a piece of plating will flake off that is large enough to gouge into the brass, causing enough friction to abruptly stop a clock, before visible wear can be seen by the traditional tests of shaking the gear trains back and forth looking for pivot movement.

2. Jamming of the lifting lever. Since you said that the minute hand was locked up when the clock stopped, I can picture a possible problem with the chime or strike trains, with the lifting lever sometimes hanging on the warn pin of one of the trains and jamming the time train, causing it to stop. To test this just remove both the chime and strike weights and see if the clock will continue to run.
Definitely #2. Anytime the hands are frozen you can count on the chime or strike train being jammed.
 

NEW65

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I did test out number 2 theory ie lifted off the chime and strike weights but there was still no tick when i pushed the pendulum?

As i mentioned i then turned the minute hand a fraction backwards and it just started ticking away again! This however is too unreliable for me to sell on and i will therefore need to get yo the bottom of the problem before it leaves here.
 

MARK A. BUTTERWORTH

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I did test out number 2 theory ie lifted off the chime and strike weights but there was still no tick when i pushed the pendulum?

As i mentioned i then turned the minute hand a fraction backwards and it just started ticking away again! This however is too unreliable for me to sell on and i will therefore need to get yo the bottom of the problem before it leaves here.
There is still a possibility the unit stayed locked when you lifted the weights off and then unlocked when you backed up the minute hand. Check the warning wheel to insure that there is a 180 deg rotation when it goes into warning.
 

harold bain

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Best way to find the source of the problem is to run the movement on your test stand without the dial, then find exactly what is locking up the minute hand when it stops. I suspect the chime lever is butting onto a stop pin as it rises, only sometimes. However if it always happens on the same hour, and only on that hour, it could be a moon dial problem.
 

shutterbug

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Usually when this happens, the rising chime lever is hitting the stop pin on the end of the lever instead of stopping it on the side. If you look inside at the stop pin when it stops you can see that. A slight change in the count wheel cam (and possibly the chime barrel position to match) will usually fix it.
 

NEW65

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Hi folks... quick update, I removed both the strike and chime weight and the clock continued to tick! Hence proving what you people have suggested to be the fault. I checked the position of the warning pin and as you all suggested the warning pin is near the top (above) the rising chime lever! Problem is I am having problems altering this! I studied the movement carefully whilst it was on my test stand and correct me if i am wrong but would help if i set the front fork lower down?? Would this allow for more height of the chime lever and retard the warning pin therefore correcting the position of the pin when resting on the chime lever? Hope i have described it well enough?! Just a theory made through observation! :) Thanks as always.
 

shutterbug

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We need a pic of the front of the movement. Not sure what you mean by the front fork.
 

shutterbug

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Hi Shutt, I mean the two forks (front and rear) that control the chime/strike. :)
I can only assume you mean the two chime stop levers. But I can't be sure until you post a pic or two :)
 

MARK A. BUTTERWORTH

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I think you mean the locking levers and that is not likely the problem. You need to adjust the warning wheel so you have 180 deg rotation from the lock to warning position. That is done by resetting the locking cam.