Kieninger Movement: What is this part for?

evetS

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Feb 28, 2009
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I have a Kieninger KSU 60 that I worked on and I can't for the life of me, figure out what this gear on the winding stem and the one next to it are for. All three stems have the same gears and they don't mate with or drive anything. They do have what would appear to be timing dots but if they are lined up, the tabs on the gears will lock. I have two of these movements and both have the gears and both are timed within one or two teeth of the same.

Anybody have any idea what they are for... or why they even need to be there:???:

Steve
 

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gvasale

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Mar 30, 2005
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It is a stop to limit winding. A variation of a "Geneva Stop" It should prevent winding a weight up to the plates and bending something. Better than a protrusion on a plate which can be distorted, possibly breaking something else.
 

evetS

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Feb 28, 2009
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Thanks for the reply but I must be missing something...

How does it limit winding? When the weights are down (7 days), you go several rotations to wind them back up. If it was to limit winding, how could it go a full 360 over and over to rewind the weights?
 

evetS

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Feb 28, 2009
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I looked again and now I see what you mean... There are 13 teeth on one gear and 14 on the other... Now I get it. Thanks!!!

Steve
 

Dick Feldman

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Steve,

You are dealing with "stop works" These will stop the weights before they hit the seat board when winding and before the cable is played out fully on the bottom end with running. There will be a position for the gears when the teeth will not mesh, stopping the action.

It is imperative to have these gears set properly because they may stop the action of any of the three trains.

It usually easiest to set the stops with the cables drums almost empty. (usually one loop of the cable on the drum with the stop set. Then wind the movement to see where the top stop actuates.

Best,
Dick
 

evetS

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Feb 28, 2009
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Thanks a lot for the info! It took me a while to understand this one. The gears LOOKED the same until I counted the teeth. Then I looked at the tall clock I have that uses this movement and since I had just wound it, the gears in question had prevented winding too high.

Thanks a lot for the info on how to time them. Good chance I wouldn’t have figured that out until I installed the movement.... and it stopped prematurely.

Thanks!!
 

shutterbug

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I guess I'm the odd one, since most here set them at the bottom. Personally, I set them at the top, where I want them to stop the winding. Where they are on the bottom will come naturally.
 

Jeff C

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Do the stops fit squarely over the winding arbor or do the fit into the ratchet wheel? Other than seeing them on newer movements I've never taken them apart to see how they reassemble.
 

bchaps

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When you are ready to disassemble these the first time, I recommend taking photos of each winding arbor when fully wound. Another good exercise to help understand how they work after disassembly is by rotating them against each other and counting the revolutions. I was able to develop several " rules" to help me understand the various types of stop works, regardless of how they are physically positioned around the arbor.

An absolute must: Test, Test, Test. Otherwise, you might find the clock stopping after 12 hours or so.
 

Dick Feldman

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To all,

It is possible to set the stops at the top only to lock up about two days later. It does not happen all of the time, but I have found setting the stops at the bottom is a safer operation.

D
 

Willie X

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Feb 9, 2008
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I agree with B.C. on the "test, test, test".

I usually do the test, all the way up and down, a few times with a 4 pound weight. This only takes a few minutes; the lighter weight makes the winding easy to control with the crank. When I'm sure that the limits are correct (and equal) I do an all up test to see if it will do the full eight days.

Most of these clocks will run very close to the 8 day mark and stop abruptly.

Willie X
 

timetofix

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Mar 7, 2011
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Are replacement stopwork gears for a Kieninger movement a common item? I'm considering the purchase of a floor clock with a Kieninger movement that has a broken tooth on one of the gears (winding shaft). I've sent a few e-mails out to part distributors and have received no reply.

Thanks - r/Tom
 

shutterbug

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To all,

It is possible to set the stops at the top only to lock up about two days later. It does not happen all of the time, but I have found setting the stops at the bottom is a safer operation.

D
It's also possible to set the stops at the bottom only to lock up when you try to wind it :D
 

timetofix

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Mar 7, 2011
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Mark - Thanks for the lead. I did purchase the clock but have not yet opened the back to get access to movement model number.. Been a busy week. I'll be e-mailing you shortly!

Shutterbug - It sounds like experimenting with the setting is a good way to go so that I understand how all this works. Learning is my primary goal. Neat hobby for sure. The clockwork designers and machinists in the heyday must have been an amazing bunch to work with and observe. Lots of interesting mechanical designs. Thanks.

r/Tom
 

MARK A. BUTTERWORTH

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In setting the stop works, the intent of the factory is to set them with the weights fully wound. The driving stop on the winding arbor has single dimple on a tooth. The driven stop have a dimple each on two different teeth. Simply wind it to the desired point and set the stops such that the driving dimple is going in between the pair of driven dimples. Note it must be going into and not out of or it will stop in a couple of days. I think that is where folks run into problems.
 

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