Kieninger movement.. serviced by using lead weights! Not feeling too happy.

[NEW65]

I have just overhauled a kieninger movement weight driven on cables.
I finished up fitting at least 12 bushings.
I'm annoyed because the last repairman didn't actually service it, he just replaced the iron fillings with lead for all three trains!
I now have a problem because the lead weights are proving to be far too much and driving the quarter chimes at a rapid rate! I'll probably have to remove the lead fillings now! I don't think I've ever seen a more rapid St Mich and Whitt and pendulum amplitude lol
I see this 'method of repair' a lot now, a quick fix for a badly worn movement... and a fast turnover!!!!

 

[Simon Holt]

My first grandfather clock came with several spark plugs and an assortment of nuts and bolts in the shell of the time train weight...

 

[NEW65]

Cheers Simon. That made me laugh but to be honest I wasn't that surprised.
I once collected a longcase clock for repair.. the owner initially said that it gained time. When I got there I noticed that the owner had welded a huge nut off a tractor on the rear of the disc . And apparently it still gained

 

[Dick Feldman]

The clock movement does "not care" what is in the weight shells. Why not find out the rated weight on each train and remove some of the lead to make the shells properly weighted?
JMHO
Dick

 

[Willie X]

I took in one once with a 2" bumper hitch ball wired to the bottom of the chime weight. About +5 or 6 pounds, I would guess. Willie X

 

[NEW65]

Thanks Dick.
Yes that did cross my mind. I find lead hard work to cut through and then of course the difficulty in fitting a threaded bar long enough to reach the end caps to refit the brass hooks. I'm going to have to do something though as the quarter chime is way too fast. Each weight is about 19lbs.

 

[NEW65]

I took in one once with a 2" bumper hitch ball wired to the bottom of the chime weight. About +5 or 6 pounds, I would guess. Willie X

bet that was eye catching. That's one way of repairing the quarter chime I guess

 

[Les Sanders]

I have just overhauled a kieninger movement weight driven on cables.
I finished up fitting at least 12 bushings.
I'm annoyed because the last repairman didn't actually service it, he just replaced the iron fillings with lead for all three trains!
I now have a problem because the lead weights are proving to be far too much and driving the quarter chimes at a rapid rate! I'll probably have to remove the lead fillings now! I don't think I've ever seen a more rapid St Mich and Whitt and pendulum amplitude lol
I see this 'method of repair' a lot now, a quick fix for a badly worn movement... and a fast turnover!!!!

Take your movement # and cut the filler lead weights down!

 

[NEW65]

Les, I know what you are saying , cutting them down is straightforward enough. However , that's the easy bit! The hard part is fitting a length of threaded bar into the lead with the same thread as the hook. If the lead was in half (down its length ), it would have been really easy.
Thanks for your post though

 

[NEW65]

Video showing St Michael being driven by too much weight.
Your views plz- is this acceptable?

 

[J. A. Olson]

Cut the caffeine.

Ideal speed is as follows:

 

[shutterbug]

Yeah, that would drive me crazy. The weight was added to fix a problem that you've obviously corrected. Now you need to find the weight that sounds best. Likely the recommended weight originally supplied.

 

[Bruce Alexander]

Sounds like an owner's change in direction. I've read accounts where the idea was to add weight in order to "beat a dying horse" and get a little more mileage out of an old (but replaceable) movement before actually having to pull the trigger to buy a new one. You must not be charging enough for your overhauls!

Even so NEW, you bring up a good point, in that the new movement doesn't automatically come with new weights. As previously mentioned, there must be factory specs published somewhere. Mark Butterworth would know what the specs are, or where to find them.

 

[NEW65]

Thanks shutt and Bruce
Many years ago the owner paid a stack of money for a jeweller to professionally overhaul the above movement. He spoke very highly of this repairman !
When I inspected it no work had been done, no bushings had been fitted , I doubt if the plates had been separated! Just 3 cables had been fitted with ends that had been soldered on!
Then, all shells had been filled with lead!
I now have to alter the weight of the fillings.
Question is.... do I tell the owner that his original weights were exchanged for lead to overhaul the movement all those years ago?
Bruce, I will check out the weight specs for this kieninger movement. I have a feeling that the quarter and time fillings are iron (which totally fill the shells); strike filling 3/4 of shell volume). I'll check it out.
I have to say that this particular kieninger movement which is the earlier version with really thick plates is excellent quality and been a pleasure to work on.
If only all movements were like this one!!

 

[J. A. Olson]

Yes, it's best to be clear and upfront with the customer about the clock no matter how outrageous its previous repairs were.
It can be a hard pill to swallow when an old respected wizard is ousted as a quack, but c'est la vie.

Griffens' Clocks gives the weights for a 1980's Kieninger KSU movement with large pendulum as 9 ½ pounds for chime weight, 9 ½ pounds for time weight, 6 ½ pounds for strike weight. See how those work out for your movement.

I agree the older Kieningers were nicer compared to what they produced later on. The gong rods sound so much better too.

 

[Robert Gift]

Whittington wizzes by.

 

[MARK A. BUTTERWORTH]

I do have the complete weight specs on my website: www.butterworthclocks.com. Password Butteworth
they are 6.6, 8.8,8.8 lbs.

 

[demoman3955]

I had a german weight clock that had added weight in the shell, and i was able to remove lead by taking the brass top off and drilling the lead until i got the correct amount of weight needed. Then put the brass top back with the screwed hook, and no one could tell.