Kick Start after Rewind

James Lucas

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Aug 25, 2020
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After reassembly the clock will run for a week and keep perfect time. However when I rewind it will only run for about an hour. After giving a slight turn with the key all works well. This is not only on the time side but also the strike. I don't think photos would be of much help since it is in the case. Would appreciate any suggestions.

Thanks, James

IMG_1140.jpg
 

Steven Thornberry

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I have moved this to the Clock Repair forum where I think it is a better fit.
 

wow

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The weights you have are cuckoo weights as you probably already know. They may not be heavy enough. Weigh them and let us know their weight.
 

James Lucas

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The weights you have are cuckoo weights as you probably already know. They may not be heavy enough. Weigh them and let us know their weight.
They are about 3lb 5oz.. I have brass weights on back order. Seems they are hard to come by..
 

Uhralt

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Maybe the cord gets tangled on the spool when the clock is fully wound?

Uhralt
 

James Lucas

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Maybe the cord gets tangled on the spool when the clock is fully wound?

Uhralt
Uhralt, I don't see obvious overlap.. I'll take it apart again and check the cord. I'm using Berkley Fireline 14lb test as suggested by one of the other members.
James..
 

shutterbug

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Make sure the seconds hand is not rubbing on the plate. Sometimes the arbor gets bent a little and the hand doesn't run true for 360°.
 

Willie X

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Next time you wind your clock, stop about 4 inches from the top and see if it does the same thing.

How much pendulum swing?

Willie X
 

James Lucas

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Next time you wind your clock, stop about 4 inches from the top and see if it does the same thing.

How much pendulum swing?

Willie X
Willie, Pendulum swing is 1 1/2"... Prior to your suggestion about the height of the weights, I released both cords and rewound them all the way up. It's been running now for about 15 hours.
 

James Lucas

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Maybe the cord gets tangled on the spool when the clock is fully wound?

Uhralt
I released both cords and rewound them all the way up. It's been running now for about 15 hours. May have had overlap that I couldn't see with the clear line..
Thanks, James
 
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James Lucas

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Aug 25, 2020
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Next time you wind your clock, stop about 4 inches from the top and see if it does the same thing.

How much pendulum swing?

Willie X
Willie, Question, why stop 4 inches from the top? Also, I've returned the movement to the test stand and did not adjust the pendulum and now it's losing 10 minutes an hour:???:? It was keeping perfect time when in the case...Would appreciate any thoughts..
Thanks again,
James
 

James Lucas

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Aug 25, 2020
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Okay... I'm back on this project.. I've taken the advice to recheck all the bushings and did find that the eccentric bushing needed replacement. I did remove the pallets and polished and replaced but it looks like I have them extended to much. Is there a general starting depth or is it just try and try again until I get the EW teeth to land properly? I have replace only the escape wheel and verge between the plates and by moving the pendulum I don't see how I can tell if the EW teeth would land correctly since the pallets aren't moving the EW:???::???: Looking forward to suggestions.
James
 

bruce linde

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[BEGIN RANT] everyone thinks words are enough and they can describe what's going on with adjustments that might be as small as thousandths of an inch. they (everyone) can't. they (words) are not enough. video is easy to share, and lets the people who might help see what you're seeing... if not what's actually going on [END RANT] :)

take clear well-lit videos of the escape wheel and pallets interacting. make sure they're at least 30 seconds long... if not longer. upload to youtube. mark as 'made for kids' and 'publish for everyone'. copy and paste the youtube video urls into a post here and the video(s) will automagically be embedded. every picture is worth a thousand words. every video is thousands of photos.

if you removed adjustable pallets you're going to need to find a setup that provides the right math... and it IS all about the math of the angles, spacing, etc. i just spend two weeks and dozens of (partial) disassemblies getting a similar setup to work. be patient.
 

wow

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The easiest way to start is to lower the pallets so they lock the escape wheel and then set the two screws so they are snug but not too tight. Then move the pallets up slightly until the escape wheel escapes. Tighten the screws and see what happens. Let us know.
 

Willie X

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Those type pallets are not normally moved unless they have been resurfaced to erase worn grooves, which is fairly common.

Winding the weights up to high can cause them to hang on something, happens all the time. Leaving some space at the top will rule this out ... a simple test. Willie X
 

James Lucas

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Aug 25, 2020
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[BEGIN RANT] everyone thinks words are enough and they can describe what's going on with adjustments that might be as small as thousandths of an inch. they (everyone) can't. they (words) are not enough. video is easy to share, and lets the people who might help see what you're seeing... if not what's actually going on [END RANT] :)

take clear well-lit videos of the escape wheel and pallets interacting. make sure they're at least 30 seconds long... if not longer. upload to youtube. mark as 'made for kids' and 'publish for everyone'. copy and paste the youtube video urls into a post here and the video(s) will automagically be embedded. every picture is worth a thousand words. every video is thousands of photos.

if you removed adjustable pallets you're going to need to find a setup that provides the right math... and it IS all about the math of the angles, spacing, etc. i just spend two weeks and dozens of (partial) disassemblies getting a similar setup to work. be patient.
Bruce, Should I completely reassemble the movement before taking the video or leave it with only the EW and Verge between the plates?
James
 

bruce linde

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Bruce, Should I completely reassemble the movement before taking the video or leave it with only the EW and Verge between the plates?
James
certainly worth a try with just the escape wheel and verge, but you'll have to set up your phone so that it can shoot video while you are applying a little bit of pressure to the escape wheel to make it turn with one hand and moving the verge back-and-forth with the other hand… That might give folks a quick idea of how far off your pallets are
 

Willie X

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It would be very difficult to adjust the escapement with only those two parts installed. Normally you would add the wheels down to the center wheel. This way you can apply power with your finger to test the action.

It may take a pro to get your escapement back in order after moving those pallet bits ...

Willie X
 

James Lucas

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Aug 25, 2020
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certainly worth a try with just the escape wheel and verge, but you'll have to set up your phone so that it can shoot video while you are applying a little bit of pressure to the escape wheel to make it turn with one hand and moving the verge back-and-forth with the other hand… That might give folks a quick idea of how far off your pallets are
Okay I'll give it a try... On second thought I'll do as Willie suggested and add the wheels.. I'll get back to you ASAP
James
 

James Lucas

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Aug 25, 2020
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certainly worth a try with just the escape wheel and verge, but you'll have to set up your phone so that it can shoot video while you are applying a little bit of pressure to the escape wheel to make it turn with one hand and moving the verge back-and-forth with the other hand… That might give folks a quick idea of how far off your pallets are
youtube
 

James Lucas

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Aug 25, 2020
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It would be very difficult to adjust the escapement with only those two parts installed. Normally you would add the wheels down to the center wheel. This way you can apply power with your finger to test the action.

It may take a pro to get your escapement back in order after moving those pallet bits ...

Willie X
Took your advice and added the wheels. Submitted a video this morning
Thank you,
James
 

James Lucas

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Aug 25, 2020
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The easiest way to start is to lower the pallets so they lock the escape wheel and then set the two screws so they are snug but not too tight. Then move the pallets up slightly until the escape wheel escapes. Tighten the screws and see what happens. Let us know.
Should I position the eccentric bushing at the highest point or somewhere in the middle?
Thanks,
James
 

Uhralt

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Should I position the eccentric bushing at the highest point or somewhere in the middle?
Thanks,
James
The eccentric bushing should not be moved (unless you already moved it). It was made to set the depth of the escapement correctly at the factory, not for later adjustments. If it has already been moved, try to bring it back to the original position.
Uhralt
 

James Lucas

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Aug 25, 2020
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The eccentric bushing should not be moved (unless you already moved it). It was made to set the depth of the escapement correctly at the factory, not for later adjustments. If it has already been moved, try to bring it back to the original position.
Uhralt
It fell out some time ago when I first cleaned and re bushed so I have no idea what the original setting was. At that time I had it on the test stand for about a week and it ran fine. When I put it back in the case is when the "Kick Start" problem began.. Would appreciate any suggestion and also appreciate all the time everyone has spent.
James
 

bruce linde

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the drops are not equal... there's too much lock on the entrance pallet and the teeth are hitting the impulse face in the exit pallet, causing recoil. the escape wheel teeth look dirty to me but hard to really tell.
 

James Lucas

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Aug 25, 2020
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the drops are not equal... there's too much lock on the entrance pallet and the teeth are hitting the impulse face in the exit pallet, causing recoil. the escape wheel teeth look dirty to me but hard to really tell.
Thanks, I'll adjust the pallets a bit and check the EW for dirt.
James
 

James Lucas

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Aug 25, 2020
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The eccentric bushing should not be moved (unless you already moved it). It was made to set the depth of the escapement correctly at the factory, not for later adjustments. If it has already been moved, try to bring it back to the original position.
Uhralt
Uhrait, I found a photo of the movement before the eccentric bushing fell out so I'll reset it at 9:00 position and start there..
Thanks again
James
 

shutterbug

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I see what Bruce described. You at least have to deal with the recoil on the exit pallet. It is a sign that the tooth is hitting the impulse face of the pallet. That will kill the pendulum action.
 

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