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JUST PICKED UP THIS SCOTTISH LONG CASE CLOCK TODAY, PLEASE HELP WITH DATING IT

Chris Klausen

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Feb 17, 2020
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Hi. A friend gave me this clock today and just need some help dating it. I think the name on the dial is either Brander or Butler. The dial is 12 1/2" wide. There is no false plate which would lean towards a later date but the minutes still have the 5 minute markers which usually indicates an earlier date. Thank you all in advance for your help.

IMG_3149.jpg IMG_3157.jpg IMG_3151.jpg IMG_3152.jpg IMG_3153.jpg IMG_3155.jpg IMG_3156.jpg IMG_3158.jpg IMG_3150.jpg
 

jmclaugh

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Jun 1, 2006
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Nice gift. That style of painted dial became very popular in Scotland from around 1840, the long hood suggests the west of Scotland. The hour and minute hands look to be replacements.
 

Chris Klausen

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Feb 17, 2020
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Thanks guys. The first picture is the name the second the city. I thought it was around 1840 as well and agree the hands are replacements. My question is if it as as late as 1840 would it still have the minute markers every 5 minutes. The dial is also smaller than the later Scottish clocks I've seen. Everything else about it says 1840 to me too.

IMG_3159.jpg IMG_3161.jpg
 

novicetimekeeper

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Jul 26, 2015
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Scottish clocks don't follow the rules so strictly.

First name John. Not sure about the rest.

(I think John Baxter?)
 

Chris Klausen

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Feb 17, 2020
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Thank you I'll see if I can find a John Baxter. That's interesting that they didn't follow the rules as strictly. So you're thinking 1840? Thanks!
 

Chris Klausen

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Feb 17, 2020
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I think you nailed it! There was a John Baxter in Edinburgh according to Loomes. His first year of working was 1797 but he had a long career and made some clocks that look a lot like mine. The last 2 letters of the city name look like gh. Thank you! Chris
 

jmclaugh

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That's interesting that they didn't follow the rules as strictly. So you're thinking 1840? Thanks!
By 1840 you wouldn't expect to see 5 minute markings but as ever there are always exceptions to rules and imo it is the style of the painting that is the best guide to dating this dial. Presumably there is no dialmaker's mark on the dial?
 

Chris Klausen

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Feb 17, 2020
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On the dial It looks like John Baxter /Edinburgh. He started working in 1797 but I did see an 1830 clock by him so he had a long work life. Yes the 5 minute markers are unusual and the dial is smaller than the other 1840 Scottish clocks I've seen but I agree with you that the painting style should be the main consideration. Thanks, Chris
 

NigelW

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Jan 2, 2015
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Painted dials with arches and corners filled with scenes, as here, were generally made from around 1830 until about 1870. The corners in this case appear to represent the continents of Europe, Asia, Africa and the Americas.
 

Micam100

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Nov 11, 2019
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Painted dials with arches and corners filled with scenes, as here, were generally made from around 1830 until about 1870. The corners in this case appear to represent the continents of Europe, Asia, Africa and the Americas.
A very similar dial in post #4 in this thread:

Michael
 

Chris Klausen

NAWCC Member
Feb 17, 2020
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Thank you everyone. So there's no doubt the painting style is 1840 but the dots for the minutes, the minute markers every 5 minutes, and the dial size point to a little earlier. I know in the 1830 and 40's the cases became sort of short and stubby whereas this one is tall and slender. I've never seen the shell pieces that are on the corners of the base like on this clock what does that point to as far as where and when it was made? I agree that the 1840 painting style is the main piece of evidence but my question is how early could it possibly be? 1830? Thank you!
 

jmclaugh

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Jun 1, 2006
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1840 is said to have been when this style of painting become popular in Scotland but that is not to say it was when it first appeared so it could well date to the 1830s but I imagine it is unlikely to have been any earlier. While generally cases did become chunkier around the midlle of the 19th C that doesn't mean they all did.
 

Chris Klausen

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Feb 17, 2020
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Makes sense, thank you! Also the fact that it doesn't have a false plate would lead us to believe it's later.
 

novicetimekeeper

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Makes sense, thank you! Also the fact that it doesn't have a false plate would lead us to believe it's later.
Falseplates are great for dating if signed, but not so great if not. According to Loomes they were in use from 1770-1850, though during the first and last ten years of that range they would be unusual but certainly not unknown.
 

jmclaugh

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Jun 1, 2006
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Falseplates are great for dating if signed, but not so great if not. According to Loomes they were in use from 1770-1850, though during the first and last ten years of that range they would be unusual but certainly not unknown.
Loomes in his book White Dial Clocks lists various painted dial features for 1770-1870. Clocks with falseplates are listed as normal from 1780-1840 and unusual otherwise. Clocks without falseplates are listed as normal for the periods 1770-90 and 1840-70 and unusual otherwise.
 

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