Just one of those days, but baffled with Kieninger SKS

Discussion in 'Clock Repair' started by NEW65, Aug 15, 2019.

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  1. NEW65

    NEW65 Registered User

    Nov 17, 2010
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    Hi Chaps,
    I have been working on a Kieninger SKS - the early model. The movement is to be honest extremely worn and I wasn't going to bother with it as it needs at least 7 bushings! Anyway I decided to have a go. I separated the plates made a good job of the strike and time train but I must have slightly misplaced a bushing in the chime train which I will probably check out tomorrow !
    I have uploaded 3 images of this movement: Here they are

    IMG_0462.JPG

    IMG_0461.JPG

    IMG_0460 (1).JPG

    The middle picture is shows the wheels NOT reaching??! The arbor of these gears are not bent! Is this because the teeth are worn?? I have never seen this before. The teeth on the gears do not (by far) make any contact!! So even if I had have got the bushing correctly positioned in the chime train (which i have taken a overhead picture of the gears assembled in the chime train for you all to view just in case I have misplaced a gear), I would not have been able to get this movement up and running because of the two gears that do not mesh!
    Is this really wear?
     
  2. Uhralt

    Uhralt Registered User
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    I don't think that's wear. How could the wheels wear even after no longer meshing, meaning after they have lost contact? I'd rather think that a mix-up of some kind happened. Either a wrong wheel or a wrong location for the pivots.

    Uhralt
     
  3. NEW65

    NEW65 Registered User

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    Thanks Uhralt - the larger of the two wheels which I think is known as the Ratio wheel, was not rebushed. There was no play in the arbor there. The other smaller gear (Idler gear) pushes snugly on a post mounted on the outside of the rear plate. There has been no mix up in parts - I always keep all parts inside plastic containers. Those were the gears that came off and have been replaced in right positions? I am totally baffled with it? If that is wear it is ridiculous. Unless someone had messed with the clock before I bought it? It was a non working item.
     
  4. NEW65

    NEW65 Registered User

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    As you say, if it was wear the teeth of the gears would be just brushing and they are not, there is a slight gap.
     
  5. bruce linde

    bruce linde Technical Admin
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    two possibilities... it was wrong when you got it and you didn't notice, or the gears got mixed up during reassembly.

    since you're sure you didn't mix 'em up, someone must have jacked it around prior to your acquiring it...
     
  6. R. Croswell

    R. Croswell Registered User

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    Can we see a picture of the whole movement as it is now? If one of the parts shown is in the wrong place then perhaps the part that should be here is also in the wrong place. This isn't wear, something is just out of place.

    RC
     
  7. NEW65

    NEW65 Registered User

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    Thanks RC. I would like to think that I have misplaced something but these two gears as far as I can see cannot fit anywhere else. I will have to check it again tomorrow and can then take the pictures. I have worked late this evening on this movement and left town now. Looks like its been a non productive day really - this and a couple of time wasters who asked me to reserve clocks for more than 5 weeks to be told that they have changed their minds. Not a great day. I will update on this though. Thanks as always.
     
  8. NEW65

    NEW65 Registered User

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    Thanks Bruce, as you mention, I am beginning to think that someone may have messed around with it before I purchased it. Still a little odd though because both gears fit perfectly in position with no play on the arbors?! Really confused
     
  9. wow

    wow Registered User
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    Is the small wheel connected to an arbor that extends through the main plate or is it only connected to the plate with the tab? If it is connected to that smaller plate only, could that plate be installed wrong somehow?
     
  10. NEW65

    NEW65 Registered User

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    Thanks wow. The small wheel pushes snugly on to an arbor that projects out of the rear brass plate. It’s a perfect fit. That is what is confusing me. The Hermle 0451 with side hammers has the same set up- it has the same small wheel (located on a arbor that projects out from rear plate) which is driven by the larger wheel (the wheel that drives the barrel).
     
  11. R&A

    R&A Registered User

    Oct 21, 2008
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    Show the big picture of the whole movement
     
  12. kinsler33

    kinsler33 Registered User

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    The day and night that you spent on that movement were not wasted. It's how you learn clock repair. While it's possible that someone horsed with your clock before you got to it--and that's why you want to take lots and lots of photographs of portions of the movement that you are certain will never require attention--there's an equal chance that you put something in backward or made some other error that will reveal itself at some point.

    I believe it was Shutterbug who recently related that it is possible to install the upper reaches of a gear train such that you get three gears meshing in a triangle, which means that none can move. I discovered this as well on several occasions, and it's also remarkably easy to confuse strike side and time side, especially if the plates are inside-out. Gears are easy to install upside-down, between-the-plates levers are found just after you've triumphantly snapped the last movement pillar in place, and there are always mainsprings that decide not to hook onto their arbors, thus necessitating disassembly of the whole clock.

    Closely related is the upside-down count wheel, which enables the clock to strike eleven after it has struck twelve, etc. (Disassembly also necessary.) Or you can do what I did not all that long ago by laboriously assembling an unpleasant open-spring time/strike movement only to discover its newly-cleaned and lubricated mainsprings carefully arranged on the workbench.

    This, I feel, is one of the many reasons that it's not such a great idea to immediately default to movement replacement, because you'd tend to lose your way through the forest of brass after a while.

    M Kinsler
     
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  13. R. Croswell

    R. Croswell Registered User

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    There will always be plenty of clock for which there is no replacement movement available to keep one from losing their "way through the forest of brass". Everyone makes a few stupid mistakes during the learning process, hopefully only once. It only goes together one way that works and if you follow the basic rule, "if it don't fit don't force it" its usually a simple matter to correct the mistake and chalk it up to experience.

    RC
     
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  14. NEW65

    NEW65 Registered User

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    Thanks RC :)
     

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