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"JUST" French mechanical clocks CH. Hour

Miche1347

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Jul 10, 2011
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Hello Fellow clock collectors
I remembered reading a while back a question about clocks marked "JUST" and where they came from. "JUST" was the popular clock line made by Hour Lavigne who were the successors to Charles Hour, the French clockmaker who founded the company in the 1880's.
The produced a "JUST" catalogue in 1930 and the JUST brand is usually stamped on the mouvement, encased in a circle. The earliest models also had CH. Hour stamped on the back. However, they also produced many of their models for high-class private brand jewellery shops such as Tiffany, Hamilton & Inch and did not stamp them with anything except 'France' and the name of the shop which makes identification sometimes a little tricky.
Some of their "JUST" clocks are spectacular examples of pure Art Deco with unique dial forms and numbering. JUST clocks were manufactured until WWII.
If you need/want help identifying a French mechanical clock, leave me a message. I have a lot of documentation on the clock making industry in France until WWII.
 

soaringjoy

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Hello Miche,

good to know someone has information on French makers.

We are still trying to identify a "snowflake" mark, found on
a French or Swiss round movement with echappement, ca. 1930.

https://mb.nawcc.org/showthread.php?t=47802&highlight=snowflake

And, have you ever seen the marks below?

(Just taking every chance....)

Jurgen
 

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Miche1347

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Jul 10, 2011
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Hi there

Yes I have seen these before. They are not 'snowflakes ' but stylized representations of an escapement wheel (roue d'échappement) and a cog wheel (barillet).

I will have to dig out some documentation I have and will get back to you some time this week.
 

Talyinka

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May 14, 2011
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Michel,

Great to know somebody with more documentation than I have :). I (only) work with French clocks from 1850 - 1940 and often drive the wheels off my van scouring your country for clocks at fairs, flea markets and Ebay. Is your documentation available on-line?

Can you tell me which manufacturer stamped their movements with AI France?

Where in the country are you located?
 

Miche1347

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No, my documentation is not online. There's too much of it and it's in French.

AI France is not a common stamping - perhaps a photograph of the clock would help identify the maker since there were hundreds of small shops producing mouvements and parts for the many manufacturers in France before WWII...

I am a very private person and have no intention of announcing where I live.
 

Talyinka

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May 14, 2011
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No, my documentation is not online. There's too much of it and it's in French.
That's a shame. I don't mind the French (I spent a stint lecturing at the Sorbonne, Fac de Science, in Paris in the 1960s and still speak reasonably well). I hope it will be possible to publish as much as possible sooner or later, perhaps put it into a book?

AI France is not a common stamping - perhaps a photograph of the clock would help identify the maker
That would be interesting. It is in a quite good black marble case in classic portico style with four polished marble columns and a pediment with inlaid marble and gilt floral patterns. I'll take a snap and put it in a post.

I am a very private person and have no intention of announcing where I live.
Aucune problème - I just thought it might be fun to meet up for a cup of coffee and talk about clocks sometime when I'm in your neighbourhood ;). Not important.
 

Talyinka

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May 14, 2011
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Michel,

I have attached a photo of the A1 logo on he movement I mentioned. I have seen it before but don't know what it means.

Maybe you can throw light on it?
 

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Miche1347

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Several of the major clockmakers in France had two even three levels of quality for their mouvements.
For instance JUST had a level 1 which was described as "qualité extra", 2 described as "qualité soignée" and 3 which was "qualité courante".
To price the 3, the buyer was charged 19 frs more to obtain quality 2 and 25 frs more to obtain quality 1 according to a JUST catalogue of 1930.

Tribaudeau also did the same thing and their 1931 catalogue included two levels of quality for their mantle clocks and three for their large bronze clocks with garnitures.

If a manufacturer produced a mouvement or a clock for a reseller, they may not have stamped their name on it, but they would have stamped the quality level. I suspect that your clock's mouvement is stamped with the highest level of quality from the maker or reseller of that clock.
 

Talyinka

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May 14, 2011
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Merci pour votre reponse.

That chimes well with the fact that the A1 stamps I have seen, have always been on clocks of excellent quality.
 

Miche1347

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Re the cog wheel logos...I consulted someone very knowledgeable and although he couldn't pinpoint the exact manufacturers, he suspects that the first and third one could be British.
Attached is a scan of an ad from 1923 of Fils de Furtwangler which is similar to the second logo and the one that I am familiar with.
 

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Talyinka

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Thanks for posting this wonderful ad.

It is interesting to note that this Black Forest company were also cabinet makers, which chimes with the fact that they manufactured grandfather clocks.

I would love to own one of their "catalogue spécal" :).

This is some further info I snatched from a web search:

"The firm had began in 1836 when Lorenz Furtwängler (1807 - 66) established his own workshop. Lorenz had four sons who took over the business at his death and renamed it ' L Furtwängler's Sons' clock Factory ' in 1868. The factory developed and was provided with water and steam power, and it obtained a reputation for very solid movements with high quality finish. Mantel clocks, wall clocks, and longcase clocks were made. The trademark of the letters LFS inside a wheel was registered in 1881 and 1895. In 1900 the firm was incorporated as ' L Furtwängler Sohne AG 'and four year later as ' Uhrenfabrik vormals L. Furtwängler Sohne Furtwangen. ..... The firm even produced cuckoo clocks but the main product was movements of high quality, which could not compete during the 1920s and so the firm, even though it had broadened its programme to include business machines unfortunately ended operation in 1929.

One's first sight of a Furtwangan clock gives the impression that it is something special "

The above account was taken from an article "The Furtwangen factory" written by E J Tyler. It was published in the September 1987 issue of CLOCKS, a UK monthly magazine.
 

soaringjoy

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Thank you, Miche, for your answers.

I guess we will have to wait for "coincedence", concerning
the trademarks, a thing we have learned to live with.:)

Certainly, LFS was one of the finest German makers.
Even the older wooden movements were a class of their own.
Later on, LFS clocks always were finest quality, and, in my opinion,
they were better than Lenzkirch...

Jurgen
 

pjb111

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Nov 7, 2013
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Hello I have a bronze wall clock that is apparently a Tiffany clock.
Stamped on the back: CH Hour who I believe was the clock maker for Tiffany (Charles Hour) The inscriptions read: R A (on either side at top); Fifteen Jewels; C H. HOUR; France; unadjusted; 'JUST; 1619;
I found a "Just " catalogue on this site but having a hard time viewing it.
Any information regarding this would be helpful and a value too.
Many thanks!
 

pjb111

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Nov 7, 2013
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Hi there. I just posted my own thread and am new to this forum so not sure how you can find it. My user name is pjb111. I would like to know if you could help me identify which store this clock was made for. I found your referencing very helpful. I guess the R A on the top of my clock would be the Shoppe? Here is the rest of the info that is stamped on the back: The inscriptions read: R A (on either side at top); Fifteen Jewels; C H. HOUR; France; unadjusted; 'JUST; 1619;
Many thanks. I thought it was made for Tiffany but nor sure.
 

soaringjoy

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Pjb111, you'll have to post pictures of what you've got, I suppose. "R + A" usually stands for "avance + retarde", meaning a fast and slow adjustments lever. You are probably looking at the so called platform escapement (echappement) of your clock.
 

Miche1347

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C.H. Hour produced many models for high-end jewellers such as Tiffany's. A or several photographs of your clock are essential - there are so many different models. Jurgen is right about the R A stamped on the movement.....
 

harold bain

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C.H. Hour produced many models for high-end jewellers such as Tiffany's. A or several photographs of your clock are essential - there are so many different models. Jurgen is right about the R A stamped on the movement.....
See post #14 that I copied from our poster's thread in our clock value forum. Disregard the second picture with a pendulum movement pictured.
 

Miche1347

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The movement is very likely the standard Hour 15 day movement produced between about 1880 - 1928. It is called a "cartel pendule" - the name for that kind of hanging wall clock. The style of the case is very Louis XVI with garlands, baroque ribbons and knots, very popular in the late XIXth Century. That words in English such as "unadjusted" and "fifteen jewels" would indicate that the movement was made for export. C.H. Hour Company did produce high-end clock movements for exclusive jewellery shops such as Tiffany's - however these clocks usually have the shop's name stamped on the dial or on the back plate of the movement at least. Your clock is a very elegant example of a cartel pendule.
 

LauraG

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Hi- I recently bought a wooden wall clock at an estate sale that has mechanical eyes located in a brass man's face located above the dial. The dial is a painted white metal and there are no marks on the outside of the clock. I opened a small panel on the back and it looks like there is writing in French inside- I couldn't see it all but the part I could see reads "vielle ". There also look like there are stars or wheels. Anybody know anything about this clock? Thanks!
 

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JTD

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Did you mean to post this in this thread (which ended 3 years ago). Your clock doesn't seem to have anything to do with JUST.

JTD
 

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