Junghans w120 stopped working after clean

skully17

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Sep 10, 2022
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Hello, this is the first clock I worked on so I am very inexperienced.
When I got the clock it would not work for long as is was just a bit gunged up. I just used a bit of wire to remove some of the gunck and gave it an oil and it worked fine. After a few weeks I thought that I really should dissasemble it and give it a propper clean.
To clean it I scrupped each part with a toothbrush in hot water with washing up liquid. I gave the peices a dry with a towel and then left them for a few hours in a hot place (Was in the middle of a heatwave at the time). I put it all back together and pretty sure I oiled all the right places but it stops after a few seconds.
I think it may be an issue with the mainspring as I decided to try grease it while it was coiled up. I realise this was a mistake. I plan to clean it again and use oil instead.
The mainspring is very difficult to handle and I can not find another like it. I can't use a Joe Collins winder (I don't have one but prepared to make one when needed) as the spring is not wound using a square rod in the center but instead a ratchet system on the casing and a cog in the center. Is there a good way to release this type of mainspring? I have been releasing the ratchet which leeds to an unpredictable "exploasive" release.

Before clean to show where the mainspring sits:
1664113648454.png

1664112520332.png

1664112554907.png

1664112568974.png


I would Like to add that I'm not sure about the hairspring. I could not manage to get it to sit flat and it seems to sit at an angle:
1664113493713.png

Not sure if this is also an issue?

Thank you for any help or suggestions.
 
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Dick Feldman

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MY opinion is that your approach is completely wrong.
A long session of reading clock repair books in your local library might improve your methods.
It is evident that cleaning is not the solution to your problem. More than likely, the real problem is low power due to wear due to long use. Till you address the real problem, you will fail continually.
Your method of letting the tension off of the springs is dangerous to you and to the clock movement. Again, hit the books. Stay away from UTube, etc. as many of those videos are put out by people with less experience than you. You will inevitably get bad advice there.
Mainsprings and balance assemblies generally do not go bad unless someone has messed with them. It is common for novices to look at those as the reason the clock movement will not run. There is a good chance that what you have done so far has damaged the balance assembly as well as other parts of that movement. Mainsprings are essentially dumb animals. They generally do what they are supposed to do and take the blame for non running clock movements.
One must have the knowledge and some experience to be successful.
That knowledge is not obtained via osmosis.
That is how I feel,
Dick
 

bruce linde

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I read some incorrect assumptions in your post.There are many threads on the message board in the clock repair forum that should be read. And, knowledge of clock repair is not digital ... you don't suddenly learn how to do mainsprings and then you're done... it's a process as you learn and start to get better at it. You need to learn how to let the mainspring down carefully and then you need to learn how to clean and smooth it, check the barrel hook, lubricate (probably not grease), etc

"pretty sure i oiled all the right places" makes me think you didn't... or at least are not 100% on what gets oiled and with how much oil. and, if you didn't check for depthing issues, bent or worn pivots, or worn pivot oils, fresh oil may not help for the long term. and, you need to make sure the balance is good (and not magnetized) and the escapement adjusted correctly.

it ain't right until EVERY potential issue has been looked at, for every part of the movement.

this is a great learning opportunity... ever forward! :)
 

JTD

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Sep 27, 2005
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I think it may be an issue with the mainspring as I decided to try grease it while it was coiled up
I don't think the problem lies with the mainspring. As Dick Feldman has said above they don't usually 'go wrong'. But please learn how to let down a mainspring (I am not sure what you mean by 'releasing the ratchet') - you definitely want to avoid an 'explosive release'. This can damage you and the clock.

In the photos of the movement you have posted there seem to be odd fibres all over the place (remains of the towel you used to dry the parts?) and strange white specks. In the last photo, I can see pools of oil around some pivots and I am wondering if some of this oil may have got onto the hairspring. Hairsprings will not work properly they get oily.

I am not quite clear if you dismanted the movement completely before scrubbing the parts with hot soapy water, but even if you did, you may simply have taken off the surface dirt. Each pivot hole needs to be cleaned out (pegged out) otherwise you have the same dirt, just may be 'rearranged' a little.

As has been suggested above, please do some reading. Folks on here will be happy to help.

JTD
 
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skully17

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Sep 10, 2022
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Thank you for the suggestions.

I did not realise that the mainspring was not very fussy. I only thought it might have been the issue because the way I lubricated it is not the way that is suggested in other posts on this forum.

Regarding letting down the mainspring, I hope this picture makes it clearer:
1664211161011.png


I have had a look around for how to release the mainspring before attempting but I could not find any that looked like this. If anyone knows how to safely let this down or possibly if this type has a name so I can more effectively research it I would be very greatful.

I did have a look at the pivits and individual parts while I was cleaning them and there was not any obvious damage. However, I will dissassemble it again, give it a more thorough clean and have a closer look (probably good idea to fetch a magnifying glass).

Cheers
 

JTD

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Sep 27, 2005
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I did have a look at the pivits and individual parts while I was cleaning them and there was not any obvious damage. However, I will dissassemble it again, give it a more thorough clean and have a closer look (probably good idea to fetch a magnifying glass).
'Obvious' damage is only part of what needs to be looked for. Worn pivot holes that are not completely 'true' may or may not be obvious, but dirt inside the holes, and pivot wear are all important and not obvious.. Yes, you should use a watchmaker's loupe to see small things clearly.

You didn't say anything about the odd fibres and grey bits in your photo, but I would suggest that you avoid producing whatever they are. And use less oil.

But please read a good basic book on how clocks work and are disassembled and you will have a better idea of what to look for and what to do.

Don't be discouraged, but try to learn before you go too far. Everyone here will be happy to help.

JTD
 

Dave T

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Dec 8, 2011
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Thank you for the suggestions.

I did not realize that the mainspring was not very fussy. I only thought it might have been the issue because the way I lubricated it is not the way that is suggested in other posts on this forum.

Regarding letting down the mainspring, I hope this picture makes it clearer:
View attachment 728390

I have had a look around for how to release the mainspring before attempting but I could not find any that looked like this. If anyone knows how to safely let this down or possibly if this type has a name so I can more effectively research it I would be very grateful.

I did have a look at the pivots and individual parts while I was cleaning them and there was not any obvious damage. However, I will disassemble it again, give it a more thorough clean and have a closer look (probably good idea to fetch a magnifying glass).

Cheers
I've never seen a mainspring like that either. No matter, you still need to do a controlled letdown. That is, you can make a letdown tool such as this one: Clock Repair & Replacement Parts - Keys, Winders, Let Down Chucks & Related - Clock Keys, Winders, Cranks & Related - Let Down Keys & Sets-Single End
Or you can make one with a key that fits your arbor, and insert it in a slot in a wooden handle.
mainspring letdown tool.jpg
 

JimmyOz

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Feb 21, 2008
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Hello, this is the first clock I worked on so I am very inexperienced.
When I got the clock it would not work for long as is was just a bit gunged up. I just used a bit of wire to remove some of the gunck and gave it an oil and it worked fine. After a few weeks I thought that I really should dissasemble it and give it a propper clean.
With this in mind,here is some steps to go through;
Use tweezers and hold the arbors and see if you can detect any side movement (look for oil displacement), if you see any movement to the pivots mark them, if not, next>
I see you have had the movement apart, did you mark the balance spring at the taper pin before you took it out? This is tricky to get the right tension, and your photo shows it at an angle, that spring needs to be flat. Mark the spring before you start and use trial and error adjustments. If no joy. next>
It looks like you will need to take the movement apart again. As you cannot let the spring down as you have no winding arbor, you need to let the movement run down by itself. Take the taper pin out of the balance wheel spring, unscrew the steel nut holding the balance wheel in place and remove the wheel. Doing this should let the movement run down by itself or you can give it a hand if it stops by adding a bit more pressure to one of the intermediate wheels. When the main spring is let down, check all the pivots as before and mark any suspects.
Now it should be safe to take it apart.
 

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