JUF wall clock

Lindielou

Registered User
Aug 23, 2011
10
0
0
Can anyone help, I recently bought an oblong wooden oak wall mounted pendulum clock the metal mechanism has J U F in a trianguar fashion surrounded by what looks like small plants..the top of the springcoil is fastened in a similar fashion but in acorns, the back plate has 2 elephants on hind legs with front legs over a clock all engraved, there is no date or serial number also the pendulum is cylinder in style as opposed to discular, anyone any clues?
 

Steven Thornberry

User Administrator
Staff member
NAWCC Member
Jan 15, 2004
24,561
1,985
113
Here and there
Country
Lindielou: Welcome to the message board. Can you possibly post pictures of the clock, both side of the movement, the metal mechanism with the triangular JUF, and pendulum? That will help us visualize what you are describing.
 

Lindielou

Registered User
Aug 23, 2011
10
0
0
I will do my best, we do have a digi cam but dear old dog has chewed the usb wires for it, hence am trying to best describe it as I can...the cylinder pendulum is of brass and the cylinder is approx 4" long by 1.5" width, with 2 little metal wheels at the bottom, the front of the casing has 3 bevelled slotted glass sections it is approx 27 " x 13" in height and width the oak casing is fairly plain but with 2 carved in beading slots either side and the bottom of the casing is of a slight pyramid fashion. I will do my best to get pics but thanx for answering.
 

Jay

Registered User
Dec 12, 2007
482
3
0
Country
Region
I am pretty sure that the trademark with the elephants standing on the clock
was used by Jahsuhrenfabrik, August Schatz and Sohne. circa 1900.
One of the MB German specialist will be along to verify with more information.

Jay
 

John Hubby

Senior Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
NAWCC Star Fellow
NAWCC Life Member
Sep 7, 2000
12,296
257
83
The Woodlands, TX
Country
Region
The proper spelling for the firm.
Jahresuhrenfabrik
Actually, not so. This is a common mistake, I believe got started by the way Charles Terwilliger wrote it in his 400-Day Clock Repair Guide. Unfortunately the historical sections of the Repair Guide have many similar errors, most likely due to the lack of access to original sources and records when the book was being written.

The correct name and spelling as per company letterhead is Jahresuhren-Fabrik GmbH Aug. Shatz & Söhne, as originally registered in 1923. See the scan below from the cover of the official 100-Year History of the company published in 1981.

The first name of the compay was Schatz & Wintermantel, a partnership formed in early (January) 1881 by August Schatz and Gerson Wintermantel and others. The company was restructured in 1884 to become Jahresuhren-Fabrik A.G., and in 1897 to become Jahresuhren-Fabrik GmbH. They operated under that name until August Schatz' sons were brought into the business in 1923 and the name including the sons adopted as noted above. August Shatz passed away in 1927, but the company operated under the above name from 1923 until they went out of business in 1985.
 

Attachments

Last edited:

John Hubby

Senior Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
NAWCC Star Fellow
NAWCC Life Member
Sep 7, 2000
12,296
257
83
The Woodlands, TX
Country
Region
I am pretty sure that the trademark with the elephants standing on the clock was used by Jahsuhrenfabrik, August Schatz and Sohne. circa 1900. One of the MB German specialist will be along to verify with more information.

Jay
Jay, the "double elephant" trademark did belong to Jahresuhren_Fabrik GmbH (the other company name was not in use until 1923) and was registered in 1900 per Kochmann. However, it was used only on their letterhead but not on any of their clocks until early 1924 based on actual documented sources and clocks. It didn't even show up in any of their catalogs that have been found so far.
 

John Hubby

Senior Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
NAWCC Star Fellow
NAWCC Life Member
Sep 7, 2000
12,296
257
83
The Woodlands, TX
Country
Region
Can anyone help, I recently bought an oblong wooden oak wall mounted pendulum clock the metal mechanism has J U F in a trianguar fashion surrounded by what looks like small plants..the top of the springcoil is fastened in a similar fashion but in acorns, the back plate has 2 elephants on hind legs with front legs over a clock all engraved, there is no date or serial number also the pendulum is cylinder in style as opposed to discular, anyone any clues?
Lindielou, welcome to the NAWCC Message Board and thanks for posting your inquiry. I am reasonably certain your clock is a 400-Day torsion clock made by Jahresuhren-Fabrik (JUF) in 1927 or possibly later. As a guess, I suspect the dial is of silvered metal and relatively large, also has a winding hole for the key to fit through the dial about 6:00. The cylindrical pendulum is relatively rare but we have documented a number of these wall clocks and will be able to positively identify it if you can post the photos requested earlier. A full front view, a closeup of the dial, and closeups of the movement especially showing the back with the double elephant mark and the JUF triangle mark will be very much appreciated. Not to mention closeups of the pendulum and the adjusting wheels. Remember to use the Macro setting on your camera to take the closeups!
 

Jay

Registered User
Dec 12, 2007
482
3
0
Country
Region
John,
Thanks for the corrections and the information. I am pretty sure that I have seen the Elephant trademark on some clocks?

I knew that there would be more regarding the names and the firm .
I am glad you provided the same.

Jay
 

John Hubby

Senior Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
NAWCC Star Fellow
NAWCC Life Member
Sep 7, 2000
12,296
257
83
The Woodlands, TX
Country
Region
John,
Thanks for the corrections and the information. I am pretty sure that I have seen the Elephant trademark on some clocks?

I knew that there would be more regarding the names and the firm .
I am glad you provided the same.

Jay
Jay, the elephant trademark has been used on a lot of JUF clocks, including wall clocks, mantel clocks, and 400-Day clocks. However, as of this writing none of them were made before 1924. The Repair Guide shows several back plates of 400-Day clocks with the elephant trade mark being made before WWI. These dates are incorrect, our research over the past 15 years has proven that none of those were made before 1924 and for those clocks where the elephant logo is used by itself none of those were made before 1927.
 

Lindielou

Registered User
Aug 23, 2011
10
0
0
Thanx guys for the information you are giving...yes john you are right the clock face is large and silver encased in a brass trim the numbers are numeric, either side of 6.00 there are 2 wind up ports, the face of the clock has unfortunately received some scratching but all the numbers ar intact and its in perfect working order, John, does this clock have any value if your suspicions are correct? I will endeavour to get some pics

Cheers Lin
 

Lindielou

Registered User
Aug 23, 2011
10
0
0
actually the key port is not either side of 6.00 one is by the side of the 8 inner and the other key port is to the inner side of the 4
 

zepernick

Deceased
Aug 8, 2004
2,602
13
0
Country
Region
Jay, the "double elephant" trademark did belong to Jahresuhren_Fabrik GmbH (the other company name was not in use until 1923) and was registered in 1900 per Kochmann. However, it was used only on their letterhead but not on any of their clocks until early 1924 based on actual documented sources and clocks. It didn't even show up in any of their catalogs that have been found so far.
Greetings Jay, John and all --

Do sometimes wonder if we'd be farther ahead with our trademarks and trademarks dating if all the "registered" dates in Kochmann were redone. Too often this is what we're doing.

In this instance Kochmann's date of "06.22.1900" (22 June 1900) does not refer to either the company's name nor to the double-elephant trademark. Rather it was the date the Jahresuhrenfabrik (so spelled) had a trademark registered, as below.

And the double elephant mark was then registered on behalf of the Jahresuhren-Fabrik (so spelled) as of 27 May 1921, also below.

Regards
Zepernick
 

Attachments

John Hubby

Senior Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
NAWCC Star Fellow
NAWCC Life Member
Sep 7, 2000
12,296
257
83
The Woodlands, TX
Country
Region
Thanx guys for the information you are giving...yes john you are right the clock face is large and silver encased in a brass trim the numbers are numeric, either side of 6.00 there are 2 wind up ports, the face of the clock has unfortunately received some scratching but all the numbers ar intact and its in perfect working order, John, does this clock have any value if your suspicions are correct? I will endeavour to get some pics

Cheers Lin
Lin, now we're getting somewhere. Your clock is "not" a 400-Day torsion clock, but a wall model gravity pendulum time/strike clock that most likely will run for 8 to 14 days. I presume that the pendulum cylinder is on a wood or steel rod? That point wasn't discussed earlier.

Also, there must be a gong mounted behind the movement that strikes the hour and half-hour.

We still need photos to fully document your clock and complete its identification. It is still a rather scarce clock but not as "rare" as if it had been a 400-Day torsion clock. I will look forward to seeing the photos.
 

John Hubby

Senior Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
NAWCC Star Fellow
NAWCC Life Member
Sep 7, 2000
12,296
257
83
The Woodlands, TX
Country
Region
Do sometimes wonder if we'd be farther ahead with our trademarks and trademarks dating if all the "registered" dates in Kochmann were redone. Too often this is what we're doing.
Zep, THANK YOU!! for digging this up. I now use the trademark dates in Kochmann with great trepidation, and your post gives the perfect reason why . . . firstly with a trademark I've never seen before on a date the double elephant was "supposed" to be registered, and then the double elephant on a date that is MUCH more consistent with information I have compiled empirically. Certainly explains why that "twofer pachyderm on alarum clock" didn't show up until the 1920's (assuming it wasn't registered earlier) among other revelations.

One of the revelations being the use of the name "Jahresuhren-Fabrik Gmbh Aug. Schatz & Söhne" in 1921 when their "official" 1981 100-Year History quotes that reorganization was in 1923 . . . :confused: Also, that the circular logo "Jahresuhren-Fabrik GmbH Germany" was supposedly registered the same date as the double elephant, again according to Kochmann. It would be a marvellous find to know exactly when that logo was actually first registered.

Back to the drawing board, this will without doubt cause a shift in my dating information for JUF clocks . . . :eek:
 
Last edited:

Lindielou

Registered User
Aug 23, 2011
10
0
0
Lin, now we're getting somewhere. Your clock is "not" a 400-Day torsion clock, but a wall model gravity pendulum time/strike clock that most likely will run for 8 to 14 days. I presume that the pendulum cylinder is on a wood or steel rod? That point wasn't discussed earlier.

Also, there must be a gong mounted behind the movement that strikes the hour and half-hour.

We still need photos to fully document your clock and complete its identification. It is still a rather scarce clock but not as "rare" as if it had been a 400-Day torsion clock. I will look forward to seeing the photos.
Yes John this clock is a striker which strikes on the half hour and hour, the cylinder is mounted on a wooden rod and as you have said the gong is mounted behind the movement. Soon as I get an SD card for the cam you shall have some pics :)
 

Lindielou

Registered User
Aug 23, 2011
10
0
0
right I have pics on my received files of the clock and mechanisms how do I post them on this site
 

Lindielou

Registered User
Aug 23, 2011
10
0
0
I think I've done it hopefully, John if you look on the back of the mechanism to the bottom right you can faintly make out one of the elephants standing over a clock face, am sorry just couldnt get it any better but hope these pics help :)
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Steven Thornberry

User Administrator
Staff member
NAWCC Member
Jan 15, 2004
24,561
1,985
113
Here and there
Country
If you are trying to post pictures, it is best first to save them to your computer. Then upload them to the message board when you reply to a thread by using the Manage Attachments function below the text box.
 

stally79

Registered User
Jul 9, 2014
5
0
0
Wales, UK
Country
Region
reading this thread............. the description really sounds like one of the wall clocks i have in my possession. i am trying to find information about them too. i will upload pictures for your opinion
 

RDeWees

Registered User
May 22, 2022
9
0
1
Country
Greetings Jay, John and all --

Do sometimes wonder if we'd be farther ahead with our trademarks and trademarks dating if all the "registered" dates in Kochmann were redone. Too often this is what we're doing.

In this instance Kochmann's date of "06.22.1900" (22 June 1900) does not refer to either the company's name nor to the double-elephant trademark. Rather it was the date the Jahresuhrenfabrik (so spelled) had a trademark registered, as below.

And the double elephant mark was then registered on behalf of the Jahresuhren-Fabrik (so spelled) as of 27 May 1921, also below.

Regards
Zepernick
 

JTD

Registered User
Sep 27, 2005
10,033
1,105
113
Country
RdeWees

Had you meant to write a message? Welcome to the board anyway.

JTD
 

RDeWees

Registered User
May 22, 2022
9
0
1
Country
RdeWees

Had you meant to write a message? Welcome to the board anyway.

JTD
Hi!
Yes, I was trying to ask if anyone knew the year or any information on my JUF wall clock.
Thank you for welcoming me.
 

JTD

Registered User
Sep 27, 2005
10,033
1,105
113
Country
Hi!
Yes, I was trying to ask if anyone knew the year or any information on my JUF wall clock.
Thank you for welcoming me.
Can't really help if you don't show some pictures, JUF made thousands of clocks through the years, so no idea which one you have.

Use the little camera icon at the top of the message box and you can attach pics from your computer.

JTD
 

RDeWees

Registered User
May 22, 2022
9
0
1
Country
Can't really help if you don't show some pictures, JUF made thousands of clocks through the years, so no idea which one you have.

Use the little camera icon at the top of the message box and you can attach pics from your computer.

JTD
97768F94-46E3-47E1-A154-E8570AAE1829.jpeg
 

JTD

Registered User
Sep 27, 2005
10,033
1,105
113
Country
Sorry I thought I had uploaded a few. Thank you
Ther appearance is that of a rather simple Jugendstil pattern, and I would guess it to be around 1905-10.

Others may know more.

JTD
 

KurtinSA

NAWCC Member
Nov 24, 2014
5,255
437
83
San Antonio, TX
Country
Region
Can't say as I've seen this before, but mikrolisk shows the J.U.F. logo and suggests it was registered in 1900. Never saw this on a 400-day clock.

Kurt

JUFOldLogo.jpg
 
  • Like
Reactions: RDeWees

RDeWees

Registered User
May 22, 2022
9
0
1
Country
Can't say as I've seen this before, but mikrolisk shows the J.U.F. logo and suggests it was registered in 1900. Never saw this on a 400-day clock.

Kurt

View attachment 710377
My apologies I think it’s a 8 day clock. I’m new to this forum and think I may have posted my question in the wrong area.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
174,358
Messages
1,523,533
Members
52,183
Latest member
minister
Encyclopedia Pages
1,063
Total wiki contributions
2,970
Last page
Hard Life for Wristwatches by Roy Gardner