JUF engine - is it worth the trouble?

kalaxxu

Registered User
Oct 12, 2005
108
2
18
I bought this very sorry JUF engine from a car boot sale today for 5 Euros.

209_0985.JPG

209_0987.JPG

209_0989.JPG

209_0990.JPG

209_0991.JPG

209_0994.JPG

209_0995.JPG

As you can see, i need to do a lot of cleaning to get it looking decent.
But i have my questions.

1) Will it be worth going to the trouble to get this thing looking like a real clock seeing i don't have anything else than what you see. Even the hands on it are mere stumps! Could i get the other parts like columns, base, pendulum .. etc somehow?
2) What do the 5 and 34 stamped on the inside of the front plate mean? Could it be May 1934 maybe. I can't see any other marks on the brass except for the double elephants.
3) Can anyone tell me if i should look for a 4 ball pendulum or did this clock come out with a disc pendulum originally?
4) And the hands ? Can anyone tell me what they looked like and if i could find adequate replacement ones.

I love these clocks, have a few working ones ... but all come from the 50's. This one might be pre WW2 and i am dying to get it working .... but is this feasible or should i just clean the engine and keep it in a drawer instead.

Thanks for any replies.


Patrick
 
Last edited:

lesbradley

NAWCC Member
Dec 20, 2007
1,040
5
38
Fairford, England
Visit site
Country
Region
I bought this very sorry JUF engine from a car boot sale today for 5 Euros.

View attachment 32218

View attachment 32219

View attachment 32220

View attachment 32221

View attachment 32222

View attachment 32223

View attachment 32224

As you can see, i need to do a lot of cleaning to get it looking decent.
But i have my questions.

1) Will it be worth going to the trouble to get this thing looking like a real clock seeing i don't have anything else than what you see. Even the hands on it are mere stumps! Could i get the other parts like columns, base, pendulum .. etc somehow?
2) What do the 5 and 34 stamped on the inside of the front plate mean? Could it be May 1934 maybe. I can't see any other marks on the brass except for the double elephants.
3) Can anyone tell me if i should look for a 4 ball pendulum or did this clock come out with a disc pendulum originally?
4) And the hands ? Can anyone tell me what they looked like and if i could find adequate replacement ones.

I love these clocks, have a few working ones ... but all come from the 50's. This one might be pre WW2 and i am dying to get it working .... but is this feasible or should i just clean the engine and keep it in a drawer instead.

Thanks for any replies.


Patrick
Depends on what lengths you are prepared to go to. I would regard this as a good spares platform for future purchases.

1. To acquire a base, hands and 4 ball pendulum would probably recquire acquisition of another clock.
2. Numbers stamped on the plates like this usually refer to batch numbers. The two elephants logo without embellishment did not appear till 1926. This movement was made between 1926 and onset of WW2.
3.This clock certainly had a 4 ball pendulum and of a style particular to the manufacturer.
4. The hands would be standard French style.

5 euros is a good price for a salvage movement, clean it, evaluate and keep it till you find a use for it. There are plenty of similar clocks out there that will benefit from a working movement or parts.

There are plenty of pictures on the forum of clocks that would have used this type of movement.
 
Last edited:

kalaxxu

Registered User
Oct 12, 2005
108
2
18
Thanks for your interest and reply Les.
Do you think you could give me an address where i could see how the complete clock looked like.
I should take the clockwork apart today, hoping i don't find worn teeth once i get the grime and dirt off.
Were the plates lacquered ?
I cannot tell. Too tarnished.


Patrick
 

Burkhard Rasch

NAWCC Member
Jun 1, 2007
4,961
222
63
65
Twistringen
Country
Region
Patric,another option,if it was mine:I would do a full service of the movement and try to get hands,a base and a pendulum for it that don´t look too bad even if they´re not original.Then I´d figure out the respective suspension spring by try and error(because without the original pendulum You can only guess) and let it run just to enjoy!And while running You´ve got all time of the world to look for the original parts.If You don´t sell this mariage under the title of being original:Who bothers?And if You let it run You can detect hidden issues of the mvmt,such as bent pivots etc.
I want my clocks running first,originality is not unimportant to me,but secundary.
Is it worth? Definitely!
Just an opinion :)
Burkhard
 

lesbradley

NAWCC Member
Dec 20, 2007
1,040
5
38
Fairford, England
Visit site
Country
Region
Thanks for your interest and reply Les.
Do you think you could give me an address where i could see how the complete clock looked like.
I should take the clockwork apart today, hoping i don't find worn teeth once i get the grime and dirt off.
Were the plates lacquered ?
I cannot tell. Too tarnished.

Patrick
If you are serious about doing this clock can probably help with parts. Please PM me if you are interested.
 

kalaxxu

Registered User
Oct 12, 2005
108
2
18
Patric,another option,if it was mine:I would do a full service of the movement and try to get hands,a base and a pendulum for it that don´t look too bad even if they´re not original.Then I´d figure out the respective suspension spring by try and error(because without the original pendulum You can only guess) and let it run just to enjoy!And while running You´ve got all time of the world to look for the original parts.If You don´t sell this mariage under the title of being original:Who bothers?And if You let it run You can detect hidden issues of the mvmt,such as bent pivots etc.
I want my clocks running first,originality is not unimportant to me,but secundary.
Is it worth? Definitely!
Just an opinion :)
Burkhard
hi burkhard and thanks for your interest and advise. actually i did not buy the pendulum that came with it last sunday because i didn't think it was the original. it was a 4 ball pendulum, and i was convinced ( don't ask me why ) that this clock had a disc pendulum ! after i read some very interesting correspondences from les and john hubby, i now know that this clock had a 4 ball pendulum. so i probably missed buying the right one ... for peanuts !:mad:
let's see if i find the guy again sunday and maybe he still has the thing. i'm armed with printouts i made of the original now, so i should be able to spot it if it's the real mc coy. any idea what should be stamped on it .. if anything?

ok, so ... let me tell you where i am at.
took the movement apart and there was a lot of corrosion, not grime. which is worrying of course. the steel pinions were nearly all affected but look to be in a good condition overall after i cleaned and polished each one ... EXCEPT for the pinion on the escapement wheel. i hope i have described that well ?
the very small pinion there is hopeless. kaput. it wasn't slipping before i took it apart, but it definitely made me feel much worse about doing this whole thing when i looked at it with a magnifying lens.
this movement is probably the most punished i myself have ever seen.
anyway, polishing the brass which is coming out nicely and cleaned the main spring as well. actually left it soaking overnight in paraffin and then flushed it out with acetone and lubricated it. no, i don't have the winder so i could not take it out and do a better job, but it gleamed before i lubricated it. so i am hoping that it's an acceptable job, if not an excellent one.
 
Last edited:

kalaxxu

Registered User
Oct 12, 2005
108
2
18
writing more, but i didn't want the other message to be overlong or else no one reads it.
tried to find the hands locally. no go.
so i don't have the hands and the pinion on the other end of the escape wheel is half eaten away .....
i didn't put the movement together again for this reason. woudl have loved to see it work, but .... with stumps as hands ?
and knowing that the last pinion is corroded ?
i want a decent movement at least, let alone still not having the base, pendulum and glass dome. those, as you rightly said could be bought somehow even if they are not original.
:confused:
 

lesbradley

NAWCC Member
Dec 20, 2007
1,040
5
38
Fairford, England
Visit site
Country
Region
The pendulum may have a DRGM no. stamped on the underside of the bottom guides, but is more likely not to. Please read the rest of my post on the JUFs as only one of the pendulums is correct.

I am afraid there is no substitute for removing the spring to clean it as there is always detritus left trapped between the coils. When you have it mounted back in the movement with the click attached check whether there is any stickiness when you wind and let the spring down.

I have one similar JUF movement which I use for spares. If the escapement is the same as yours you are welcome to it.
 

kalaxxu

Registered User
Oct 12, 2005
108
2
18
The pendulum may have a DRGM no. stamped on the underside of the bottom guides, but is more likely not to. Please read the rest of my post on the JUFs as only one of the pendulums is correct.

I am afraid there is no substitute for removing the spring to clean it as there is always detritus left trapped between the coils. When you have it mounted back in the movement with the click attached check whether there is any stickiness when you wind and let the spring down.

I have one similar JUF movement which I use for spares. If the escapement is the same as yours you are welcome to it.
hi les !

thanks for your reply. noted what you said about the pendulum.
re the spring, i put a winding key on the shaft as i was flushing it out with paraffin and then acetone and "wound" it counterclockwise as far as i could physically go with my hand ... so i had a small space between the coils. know what i mean ?
so, i tried to take any debris out as i was rinsing.
as i said before, i know it's not what i should have done, but i did what i could do in the circumstances. and it looked clean, very clean in fact. and shiny, which was surprising. must have been good steel they used for the spring at least in those days!

re your offer.
what can i say.
thank you !!
can i send you pics of the wheel later, maybe you can tell me if it's the same ?
or won't that do ?
 

lesbradley

NAWCC Member
Dec 20, 2007
1,040
5
38
Fairford, England
Visit site
Country
Region
If you go to the part of the web page where you put in your user name and password you will see Private Messages. Double click on that and it will take you to where you can send and receive Personal Messages through the forum. If you advise me your email address in a PM we can correspond more easily.
 

Ingulphus

Registered User
May 29, 2006
725
3
18
Oakland, CA
Country
Region
kalaxxu -

Restoring a clock from just a few pieces is a huge challenge - and an enormous pleasure as, one by one, the correct parts appear. I'm fond of the basket cases, as they can give much more satisfaction if and when they're finally completely restored. By using this forum, and watching eBay carefully for similar JUF clocks from the same era, you'll be able to identify the correct parts you'll need, and be ready to pounce on them when you see them. You're also lucky in that this movement is not uncommon.

However, you may also find a complete JUF from the same era that has broken teeth on the barrel, or is missing the crown or a movement pillar - and, a la pouf!, you'll have the parts at hand.

Either way - enjoy your find, and be patient! I've made the astounding discovery that there is NEVER just one of anything, and eventually it will turn up on eBay!

Best regards,

Mark
 

bangster

Moderator
Staff member
NAWCC Member
Jan 1, 2005
19,988
513
113
utah
Country
Region
Looks to me like a perfect candidate for electrolytic rust-removal. But you've probly already done something else instead. (I have become a firm believer in electrolysis.)

bangster
 

bangster

Moderator
Staff member
NAWCC Member
Jan 1, 2005
19,988
513
113
utah
Country
Region

kalaxxu

Registered User
Oct 12, 2005
108
2
18
thank you all for your interest.

this "tea" idea i am trying now. so i will be brewing soon.
read that link and it sounded harmless enough to try.
i was thinking about applying a rust converter like trustan or loctite first but i decided not to for fear of either having acids attacking the steel or altering the profile of the teeth if some kind of primer if deposited together with the other chemicals present in such converters.
 

daveR

NAWCC Member
Sep 10, 2008
367
11
18
melbourne, Australia
Country
Region
It's coming up nicely, the dial looks good and clear although I go with Les on eventually having to remove the mainspring, These clocks need all the power they can get.
If the tea doesn't work on removing the rust, go with bangster's electrolysis that he explained about a week ago, rather than going to the local hardware for a rust remover and finding all the steel componets dissolved....:(
david
 

kalaxxu

Registered User
Oct 12, 2005
108
2
18
well the tea did work in that the rust was seemingly changed into a blackish and non washable coating. impressive i think. then a good samaritan came to my help and supplied me with the missing hands and the escapement. the pinion was virtually eaten away and it would not work. polished the brass using autosol ( which in my opinion does wonders ) and ordinary kitchen steel wool. cleaned the bushes with toothpicks i soaked in acetone. then i protected the bushing holes with minute blu tac balls that i flattened into the recesses and applied an acrylic lacquer. removed the blu tac, cleaned the bushes once again and put the movement together again.
this is the result ...

100_6315.jpg

100_6316.jpg

100_6317.jpg

100_6319.jpg

100_6320.jpg


still without a base though.
:(
looking at les's mahogany juf and it looks gorgeous.
was thinking of copying the design and having it made on a thorn.
should i ?
 

Burkhard Rasch

NAWCC Member
Jun 1, 2007
4,961
222
63
65
Twistringen
Country
Region
Great idea,the mahagony base,verry extraordinary and-(should not be)-too expensive.You can allways remove when You come across an original brass base.Cannot wait to see it running!Could it be Your pendulum is missing the central twisted post with its end-knob?
Burkhard
 

lesbradley

NAWCC Member
Dec 20, 2007
1,040
5
38
Fairford, England
Visit site
Country
Region
Great idea,the mahagony base,verry extraordinary and-(should not be)-too expensive.You can allways remove when You come across an original brass base.Cannot wait to see it running!Could it be Your pendulum is missing the central twisted post with its end-knob?
Burkhard
I think its the Kundo pendulum, type 35 from the guide, and yes, there is a small decorative knob missing.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
167,202
Messages
1,457,058
Members
87,366
Latest member
PhilGoodew
Encyclopedia Pages
1,057
Total wiki contributions
2,914
Last edit
E. Howard & Co. by Clint Geller