Joseph Johnson Family Tree

[John Matthews]

Hi PL,

I conclude that there must have been a earlier son as it seems unlikely that George would be the '& Son' in 1829 as he would have only been 7 or 8 depending on compilation date of directory with respect to his birthday. The Reform Act of 1832 gave the vote to men you occupied property with a minimum annual value of £10, I think men probably meant age 21 or over. So if that is the case, for John H to be an earlier born son of Samuel and Elisabeth, he must have been born in or before 1811.

John

 

[PapaLouies]

Hi John,
I checked all baptisms for John Johnson at St. Nicholas, St. Peter, St Anne Richmond & St Mary the Virgin from 1800 to 1818.
No John Johnson, Son of Samuel Johnson. I think it was quite common in England to include & Son in your business to secure his inheritance.

Regards, PL

 

[John Matthews]

quite common in England to include & Son in your business to secure his inheritance

I very much doubt that applied to son who was only 7.

Try this ...



John

 

[Tom McIntyre]

It depends on how conscious the father was of infant mortality. Having a son to follow in the business was a major goal, since otherwise you were working on a dead end.

John Roger Arnold worked very hard to have a son even though he and his wife were barren. Sadly the adopted son died shortly after becoming free of the Clockmakers Company.

 

[PapaLouies]

I very much doubt that applied to son who was only 7.

Try this ...

View attachment 512825

John

Joseph Preston: John baptized 26/6/1831, Joseph baptized 25/12/1835.

Regards, PL

 

[John Matthews]

During the past few weeks PL has been researching supporting documents for the Johnson family tree. This post is almost entirely down to his efforts for which I am most appreciative. The documents he has provided are appended. They have confirmed event dates shown in the family tree and also the occupation of some of the Johnson family members.

Marriage of Mary Johnson & Francis Norris on 22 November 1831 – witnessed by Mary's brother (John) & sister (Margaret)



'Sir' Francis Norris and Mary Norris from Liverpool Mercury:

Friday 25 December 1840.
Sir Francis Norris of Mount-pleasant, Liverpool, watch-maker, aged 32, The deceased was generally respected in his business.

Friday 29 January 1841.
CHRONOMETER & WATCH MANUFACTORY a 28, MOUNT-PLEASANT.
MARY NORRIS, ( widow of the late FRANCIS NORRIS ).

Marriage of Elizabeth Johnson & James Cashen on 05/04/1842



The marriage witnessed by Alice? Or Ann(e) Johnson (PL - can you identify this signature on the original?). James and his father William both with occupation 'carver & gilder'.

1851 census for Joseph Johnson Norris, a watchmaker and finisher, living with his sisters.



Marriage of Joseph Johnson Cashen a watchmaker & Susanah Griffiths on 25 June 1866



Joseph's father, James Cashen, listed as a gilder

It is of interest that on the marriage certificate of Elizabeth Johnson, James and William Cashen have occupations as 'carver and gilder', while in 1866 on the marriage certificate of Joseph Johnson Cashen, James Cashen is recorded as just a 'gilder'. In the Liverpool database, both Cashens are recorded as gilders. The occupation of 'carver and gilder' is not, according to my research, directly associated with watchmaking. A carver, carved decorative details on fine furniture, picture & mirror frames, architectural details for buildings, and other wooden objects. If he also applied gold leaf to the objects, he might be listed in a census or a trade directory as “carver & gilder”. This was a skilled trade which would require an apprenticeship to a master before being allowed to ply your trade, and you will find most carvers living in larger cities where they could sell their skills and products to the wealthy upper classes. The association of 'carver with gilder' would normally imply that the gilding activity would be the application of gold leaf to a wooden object.

While it might seem reasonable for a family with a tradition of working with gold, to move from working with gold leaf and wood, to working with mercury/gold amalgams and 'fire gilding' watches, they do involve different skills and facilities. I just wonder, in the case of the Cashen family, whether there is any supporting evidence. I have not been able to find any. In the 1871 census James is still identified as a 'carver & gilder', so perhaps it would be a leap too far to assume 'gilder' on the 1866 marriage certificate implied that James was engaged in 'fire gilding'.



I have, therefore, identified 'carver & gilder' as a separate trade on the updated family tree ...

[pdf]520935[/pdf]

John

 

[PapaLouies]

The marriage witnessed by Alice? Or Ann(e) Johnson (PL - can you identify this signature on the original?). James and his father William both with occupation 'carver & gilder'.

Hi John,
No question the signature is difficult to make out, but I see no evidence of an " l " in it. Alice Johnson was 29 years old in 1842 and likely married, so no longer a Johnson or possibly dead. Ann was 19 in 1842 and likely the person that signed.

Regards, PL

 

[John Matthews]

Ann was 19 in 1842 and likely the person that signed

PL - makes sense ..

John

 

[John Matthews]

I have just checked a selection of trade directories in an attempt to understand the way that gilders are categorised. There are various designations used which including 'gilder' and 'carver & gilder'. In some directories 'watch gilder' is used in listings for the major watch making centres i.e. London, Coventry and Liverpool. However, I am not convinced that all of the publishers used the same categories.

Despite the listing in the Liverpool Museum database, I do not think that the Cashen family were involved in the watch trade. I believe they were carvers and gilders working with gold leaf as I described in the earlier post. I base this on the entries in, for example, Pigots 1828/29 National Directory -



The Cashen family continue to be listed in subsequent directories, as 'carvers and gilders' and I have found no entries for them as 'watch gilders'.

In general, while I think it is likely that in some directories watch gilders may have been listed under the general heading of 'gilders', I think those listed under the profession of 'carvers & gilders' are unlikely to have engaged in fire gilding of watches. One final fact, in Kelley's 1880 national directory of the watch trade, it states that 83 watch gilders were active in London and 336 outside London.

John

 

[PapaLouies]

Hi John,
Some time in the past my information was that Joseph Johnson, born 17/07/1815, died in 1826.
Queston: Would the Johnson's name another son Joseph, born 11/05/1821, if the other son was still alive?
Could it be that John Houghton Johnson died in 1826, not 1836 and that Joseph, born 17/07/1815, died as an infant?
Regards, P/L

 

[John Matthews]

Hi PL

I think the answer is that Joseph Johnson born in 1815 died in 1820 not 1826 (as I originally had on my family tree). The 1820 date based on the information received by Oliver from his New Zealand source here.

John

 

[PapaLouies]

Hi PL

I think the answer is that Joseph Johnson born in 1815 died in 1820 not 1826 (as I originally had on my family tree). The 1820 date based on the information received by Oliver from his New Zealand source here.

John

John, can you change the date on your family tree, to 1820?
Regards, P/L