Jonas Barber, Winster long case

Discussion in 'General Clock Discussions' started by woodlawndon, Jun 13, 2019.

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  1. Caton

    Caton Registered User

    Oct 11, 2019
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    That looks really nice.
     
  2. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User

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    Very pleased with that one, the clock itself was made about ten miles from here about 1700. Internal rack with a passing strike on a second bell on the half hour and a strike/silent lever that silences both.
     
  3. woodlawndon

    woodlawndon Registered User
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    YES please. Your restoration is really something, looks great.
    Don
     
  4. Caton

    Caton Registered User

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    This is Clock Number 1187, (Number 1186 dated 1782) Of particular note is the trunk door top which has twin horns on the top, similar to clock number 1308 which started off this post. I have two other Barber clocks that have similar door tops, and I've seen many many Barber clocks with this feature. There is no identification on the back of the dial. It doesn't have the two chapter ring circles painted on the dial, and according to the dial artist who restored it, it never had them. I'll post the other clocks later.
    Phil

    1187 dial.jpg 1187 front plate.jpg 1187 hood.jpg 1187.jpg
     
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  5. Caton

    Caton Registered User

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    Re clock 1187 forgot to attach this photo which is pasted inside the case door. It was created by the previous owner of the clock.
    Phil

    FCA9D48E-6E3D-46E4-B55D-3321A748958F.jpeg
     
  6. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User

    Jul 26, 2015
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    There is an example of that in Loomes book dated 1785.
     
  7. Caton

    Caton Registered User

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    30 Hrs clock No. 488 (no. 439 dated 1758) This clock is unusual in that it has rack striking with either side repeat - there are two corresponding holes either side of the hood for a cord to go through. The vast majority of 30 hr clocks had countwheel striking. The repeater spring was missing so I had a new one made. You can see the spring from the right hand side of the movement. Nice figured oak case with mahogany cross banding. Note the twin horns on the door top. The clock is listed in Cave Brown Cave. When I bought the clock it had bun feet which were totally wrong, so I had ogee bracket feet made. It also had an obviously wrong minute hand, so again I had a replacement made. Regarding cave Brown Cave, Brian Loomes once told me that CBC nicked all his research. CBC had sold the musical clock 660 which all his family knew was by Barber, even though it wasn't signed. He then proceeded to rubbish the clock to justify his selling of it. CBC's book is invaluable for the clocks listed in it, but I think some of the conclusions he made are suspect. Loomes book Westmorland Clocks @ Clockmakers is far better, though more concise. Loomes has also written quite a few articles in Clocks magazine about the Barbers, including an article about the musical clock 660. I will post the other two clocks later.
    Phil

    488 frontplate copy.jpg 488 showing number.jpg No. 488 case.JPG No. 488 door top.jpeg No.488 hood.JPG IMG_0669.jpeg IMG_0670.jpeg IMG_0671.jpeg
     
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  8. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User

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    I have a 30 with either side repeat, 30s are so quirky.
     
  9. Caton

    Caton Registered User

    Oct 11, 2019
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    30 hrs clock No. 240 (No. 125 dated 1752, No. 305 dated 1755) The dial has all the Barber characteristics just like the last one No. 488 - pigs tail on 5 and the monogram signature , and the flourish after Winster. The case has some nice features. The bracket feet carry along the full sides of the case as other Barber clocks, nice base panel, and cushion under the hood, The finial is a replacement. Its a large cotton bobbin with an urn from an old vienna case on top. I needed something as it looked bare before. There was a finial there which had been glued on. I remember seeing a similar numbered Barber clock with the same pediment, with some form of ornate shield as a finial. This is a fairly early numbered clock before the twin horns on the door top came into prominence.
    Phil

    IMG_0665.jpeg IMG_0667.jpeg IMG_0675.jpeg IMG_0676.jpeg IMG_0677.jpeg IMG_0678.jpeg IMG_0679.jpeg
     
  10. Caton

    Caton Registered User

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    This is a 30 hr Barber clock No. 880 ( Nos. 871 & 885 both dated 1770.) It is very very similar to clock No. 885 which is in The Maritime Museum in Lancaster UK. That clock is illustrated in Cave Brown cave page 243, although my case is not nearly as fine as No. 885. The thing I like about this clock is the tiny gloved hand pointing at the date. When I bought this clock the top pediments had been sawn off obviously to fit in a low ceiling, and there were ugly hinges bolted onto the outside of the case door, the case door being split & broken around where the old hinges had been. I had the case restored by a chap called Tom Kelsall from Slyne near Lancaster, who made a wonderful job.You can hardly see where he joined new pieces of wood together to hide the splits in the case door. He also repaired the pediments as to how they should have been. He also made the bracket feet for clock No. 488. He has now unfortunately retired and I miss his genius tremendously. The twin horns appear on the top of the case door again. I also have two verge watch movements by Barber which I will list later.
    Phil

    IMG_0681.jpeg IMG_0682.jpeg IMG_0683.jpeg IMG_0684.jpeg IMG_0685.jpeg
     
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  11. woodlawndon

    woodlawndon Registered User
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    You have a heck of a nice collection Phil.
    Don
     
  12. Caton

    Caton Registered User

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    Two verge watch movements by Jonas Barber, Winster. The first is a movement only, numbered 597 (not the same numbering as the clocks obviously, I presume he bought the movements and case in from another manufacturer with his name as the retailer.) I bought it on ebay with a broken balance, which I've since had repaired so it does run. The second I also bought on ebay. It's numbered 480. When I bought it, it had a horrible repair to the balance cock, with a piece of brass soldered over it where it had split and broken in two. I've had it repaired professionally, but it lost the gilding in the process. It is in a consular case which is clearly not original. It appears to be silver with some strange hallmarks that I've never seen before. I've tried to photograph the marks with my iphone but they aren't very clear. Any ideas anyone? That completes my Barber collection. I have 5 other Lancashire longcase clocks
    Phil

    Image 21-11-2017 at 17.26 (1).jpg Image 21-11-2017 at 17.26.jpg IMG_1306.jpg IMG_1308.jpg IMG_0686.jpeg IMG_0687.jpeg IMG_0688.jpeg IMG_0689.jpeg IMG_0692.jpeg IMG_0694.jpeg IMG_0695.jpeg IMG_0696.jpeg
     
  13. gmorse

    gmorse Registered User
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    Hi Phil,

    Yes, this was the standard practice at the time. Watches were made on the 'putting out' system, mostly in the Liverpool area, and later on in Coventry, and of course the 'carriage trade' in London, which still bought in most of its frames and raw movements from the first two areas.

    It's indeed hard to make any sense of these marks. especially as they're quite rubbed, but clearer pictures could help.

    Regards,

    Graham
     
  14. Caton

    Caton Registered User

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    Thanks for that. I’ll try to dig out my digi camera and take a proper picture of the marks.
    Phil
     
  15. Caton

    Caton Registered User

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    I've tried to take clearer photos. It does appear to be silver. The marks look a little rubbed and I've never seen marks like this on an English silver watch before. The case looks like it was made for the watch as the key winding hole fits perfectly and it's a deep case to fit the verge movement. The engine turning on the back is very crisp as if it hasn't been used much. I bought the watch complete on ebay from someone in the UK, but the marks don't look British.

    P1030170.JPG P1030172.JPG P1030173.JPG P1030175.JPG P1030177.JPG P1030170.JPG P1030172.JPG P1030173.JPG P1030175.JPG P1030176.JPG P1030177.JPG ajxR9bL7Rl2OVclzFfQdjg.jpg Gmqj5Ma7RxW3Zp7rIdC3CQ.jpg
     
  16. gmorse

    gmorse Registered User
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    Hi Phil,

    Certainly not English marks, but there appear to be three apparently identical stamps, all equally worn, so I doubt if they have any actual meaning. At the time this movement was made, it would have been more likely to be in pair cases rather than a double backed single case.

    Regards,

    Graham
     

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